Anyone think that we can be guilty of over recruiting? Chopping and changing every off season isn't going to let players build a relationship either on or off the field.

If you take Leeds & St Helens v Bradford & us for example.

The former only tend to bring in two maximum players in during the off season. With a similar amount leaving. Whereas Bradford tend to bring in 5 or 6 (as do most SL clubs probably). The reason i chose Bradford is 3-6 years a go they were competing on the big stage, whereas now they are doing even worse than us- thats saying something). I just feel the reason that ourself and Bradford are struggling is because of over recruitment. Bradford tend to bring in the better players from the weaker clubs, whereas we bring in smaller players (who have not really made it) at big clubs.

Is it time we maybe gave players more than a season and only bring in or two faces per year or are we doing it right?

how many players did we sign last off season?

2 wasnt it, Higham and Carvell

You know the answer, its two.

Plus the two we've brought in this year..wait for it..makes four.

How many did we bring in during 2005, 06, 07, 08?

agreed if we had kept basically the bulk of the 2004 team together, we could have won SL now

It's not like were doing what Chelsea done in football a few years back, it's a few improvements here and there, hardly a major overhaul.

The improvements were necessary to get us out of the zone we were in, 2003 just made the playoffs, 2004 just missed out. We had to make sure that over the next few years we were doing better than just hovering around the playoff zone.

We have hardly set the world alight with all these signings since 2004, have we?

Give Smith his dues since he has arrived we are a better outfit ... So let him continue to do his job and recruit who he wants too, If we need 4 more signings im sure Tony knows what to do.

WE HAVEN'T SET THE RL WORLD ALIGHT SINCE 1974 NEVER MIND 2004

to be honest i do not think we are a better outfit since Smith arrived.
Cullen had us up to 4th in the league we now sit at 9th which i think is just about where we were when Cullen took over all those years ago.
You could argue that we are actually going backwards. And we cannot blame Cullen he went nearly 18 months ago.
I said at the time the Club needs a massive clearout and it does not matter who is coach as long as Briers, Westwood, Monahan and 1 or 2 others are around then forget it.
Obviously with 14 teams in SL this year our position looks mid-table but last year with only 12 teams in SL, 9th would have been seen to be really bad.
Smith inherited a great young team at Leeds, he did'nt bring the likes of Burrows Maguire into the side they were in place already.
Remind me what he did at Huddersfield and in the World Cup last year!!!!
We should have stuck with Cull.

Is this the first anti-Tony Smith post to be registered on here?

paul... is that you?

I agree with Fletcher ender the rot is a lot deeper than the coach. Cullens inaction in getting rid of these players he mentions (he points out the names of Briers and Westwood who Cullen lavished with praise) has left the current coach with a major problem and one it will take a long time to sort out. Cullen had a great team which got to 4th in the league and rather than kicking on from there he dismantled the nucleus of that side - Grose, Fa'afili, Gaskell, Toa, Lima, Noone, Wainwright, all players who Cullen moved on because he wanted to 'take us to the next level'. How much of an improvement were their replacements? Hence under Cullen we slipped steadily backwards from that strong position.

How does this sit with TS giving Briers a new contract though?

It doesn't. There's so much bitterness, petty point scoring and uninformed comment on this forum, it makes me want to puke.

Blurrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh.

I reckon the following factored into the decision:-

- lack of viable alternatives for the same price
- still a genuine threat on his day
- only 1 year
- keeps player churn to a minimum
- excellent in field kicker

He was average at best on Sunday and made some dreadful last play decisions - yet he still made one of our precious few clean breaks and set up a try for a bloke who was playing his 2nd game in years.

I know Briers has his faults, but on balance, it makes sense.

Pepto Bismol?

I always assume you are being sarcastic but anyway the only one I would have kept was Henry (burn me!)

Kept Henry? Instead of Hicks? Tough one. Hicks can keep and is very dependable but Henry scored tries for fun, Hicks, probably due to being in a variety of positions isn't so prolific but a great player to have.

Would you say Briers has been one of our top men this year, let's say top 5

I started to try and answer that and it's very difficult.

I'd say our best five players since Smith arrived would be:-

Morley
Carvell
King
Bridge
Harrison

but without Briers, Clarke, Mathers and many of the others then that wouldn't be the case.

Probably not.

However that is irrelevant to the question of whether he is worth re-signing or not. By that logic, if we had 10 out of contract, you'd only re-sign the top 5.