There's been a few threads on here recently which have involved people criticising things that club has (or has not) done (away shirt, merchandise etc) and other people rushing to defend the club, so I thought I'd see if a disussion could open up.

The question is - where is the line between raising a concern that something is not being done well, and whinging? Do the negative posters think that the club can't do anything right? Do the positive posters think the club can do no wrong?

I think it's just the nature of online forums. Hiding behind a username means that people can post their unedited opinions and not have to suffer any great consequences. I don't mind though, I'd rather have a few controversial posts to spark a bit of debate than everyone agreeing the "yes, the club have done 'X,Y,Z' wrong, but it doesn't make a great deal of difference to my life".

Due to my location I can't make FR meetings, but do you tend to find the same polarised opinions towards the club as on here?

Its a strange one this- Im a season ticket holder at both Salford & Utd. Things at Utd get me more wound up than anything- prices, corporate, not wearing poppies on their shirt for the Chelski game etc. but i kind of accept it as thats the way it is and onfield success is a great ditterant for moaning.

With Salford i feel a lot more closer to the club, like im part of it- i think thats down to its relative small stature and me living 5 minutes away so i constantly feel more let down by them when things dont go well. Its not that i dont feel like the club cant get anything right its just at times it seems like a headless chicken with no direction. Yes we've got plans for this that and the other but all the setbacks and negativity i keep hearing constantly leave me feeling frustrated and concerned for the future of the club.

The club in my opinion do more things right than wrong but we only hear about the wrong- other fans only hear about the wrong, so theres more negativity surrounding the club than positivity- hence all the moaning!

.....and breathe.

I agree with your post, re the Salford aspect & what is highlighted is very
very true.
Sometimes I feel that from some fans points of view, strangers looking on here will get the opinion the club do absolutly nothing right for the game or the fans.

Maybe a forum meeting through F/Reds, with club people is an answer, where you can come along & air your views, be they right or wrong in your eyes & get some answers from the club. Put suggestions forward & get replies as to if they are workable or not from the club.

On the other hand, some posters may be perpetual moaners, & always see the negative in everything & need to whinge(incidentally, I have one of those in my family, not Alan)

I think the club try, with limited resources, but they are never going to please everyone no matter what.

I've been asked to post this by KOTS who can't access the site at the moment

Does that mean that PR is failing badly then?

Great post mate

It's our club and when the people running it act in an amateur way it annoys me. Plus the current state of the team and the little hope of it getting better leaves me very frustrated. In these instances I feel compelled to moan on and off here. Club apologists over every single issue rile me as well.

The thing that stresses me out is what goes on off the field with regard to the stadium & i also feel that the people who run the club can sometimes be amateur to say the least, i know we cant afford to buy all these world class signings which is fair enough i can deal with that but what gets me angry is not knowing where the club will be in 3 years time, yes ill still be there if we play Swinton but for me i will not be able to rest until the stadium starts coming out of the ground, the fact its bin going on so long does test everyone's patience & i think its the not knowing where we will be in 3 years times that's triggers my anger.

As an person often involved as an apologist, I happen to agree an open debate is needed.

I defend when I feel is being derided without any look at the positives and/or the matter is discussed in one of the moaning-bandwagons (that I hear so often at work and in pubs). One says "x" is wrong and everyone joins in with criticism of "x".

Although I hope to be as Salford to my dying day as I am now, I realise that Rugby League is a minority matter and that Salford RLFC is a minor player in that area. The club tries hard and (for me) succeeds in a very contested and annoyingly hostile entertainment market. I often feel that some posters do not step back and see how pay-to-attend sports are doing in this age of pay-to-view-at-home. I think that we do well.

I also get annoyed when punters complain when our chair does not spend all his money: he has given enough (in my opinion) and, although perhaps open to criticism elsewhere, should not be judged as not caring.

I stopped going to United when I felt not wanted except as a paying customer. I never feel that at Salford.

There is one thing i would like to ask the club. Where has the money for the Myler deal gone? I just don't buy into this "its gone on ensuring the club don't go under" and "securing our finances for the coming season" blah blah blah. Remember folks we offered myler one of the best ever deals to be offered to a Salford player or so we were told. So where would we be now if Myler had accepted? Would we have even been able to afford a squad? Or would we have been willing risk everything for the sake of one player?

That's a difficult one now though becasue it's not the club that's building the stadium. What I would say is that the advertising of an £8million tender with a start date on it is the best news we've had on that subject since the public enquiry clearance.

The current state of the board is simply a reflection of the current state of the club.

The same old b******* all the time from the same old faces with no sign of any immediate change.

The "Myler" money was used to pay off the tax bill as was mentioned some weeks ago.

I suppose it is really- All the major announcements at Salford over recent times has been about the stadium. Im not going to get into a big will it wont it debate but i think the majority of us can agree that the whole thing has been handled terribly. From a PR point of view a few weeks ago we were all happy as larry on here as a poster (think it was you Iain) found that the contract had been put out to tender. Why werent the club announcing this? surely this is a positive move re stadium development? We then get the news in the MEN that blah blah blah more delays more negative press.

On the other hand were doing such good work with the Acadamy, bringing players through, youngsters being given a chance and taking it etc etc, wheres the publicity? why aernt we shouting this from the roof tops?

Maybe its just a probelm that negativity attracts publicity, who cares that were doing great work elsewhere when were not delivering on umpteen broken promises regarding our future.

Yeah, so where would that money have come from if Myler had accepted the contract?

I think a hard dose of commercial (and legal) reality is needed by some fans...

The club is actually a private limited company, limited by shares (see [urlhttp://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/e969c92a43f903bed5fb5629769af7ca/compdetails[/url for details).

The primary responsibilty of the business is to its shareholders, so when people say "it's out club", that is simply not the case. If you want that to be the case then buy some shares!

It is simply unrealistic for people to want to know commercially sensitive information regarding things like contracts for the stadium and much of the criticism of the club has been about these issues. BUT I'm certainly not saying the club have been blameless, they could have issued a statement explaining what they were and were not allowed to say and that would have defused a lot of the anger and frustration.

Myler wouldnt have accepted it regardless what was printed it was the official line, they work at salford like we work at your job people would have talked like you talk to your mate over the desk but in the changing room or training field so the club would have had a idea that he was on his way long before the club dreamed up the idea of a highest paid player ever

I was annoyed but i think the club played a blinder, you would probably find the club built into the contract his wage would have gone up gradually to give them so many years to reorganise the money as people are released and retire so it wouldnrt have been "right from friday your on 100k"

Good idea Iain, but it's now turned into another 'Myler' thread

Iain,I will probably be classed as someone who regularly defends the club, which I admit I have done from time to time but I believe that there is a time and a place to air one's grievances and unfortunately some people will have a go at the club at every opportunity even when there is just a rumour or some innuendo to go off.

What annoys me is that some of the posters on here have had many chances to face their main targets from the club but rarely if ever do when given the opportunity and if they do attend meetings with other supporters and club officials they usually keep quiet, and mishear what has gone on at the meeting.

People query what are the club doing with the money that is coming in, yet cannot understand that with our crowds and other income streams we are only, and are quite correct in doing so, working within our financial limits.

I come on this forum because I have had a long standing affection for the club, going back to 1946 for my first match, and I am lucky that my family have carried on along with myself.

I like seeing what other peoples views are concerning all aspects of the club and even when other peoples views differ from my own it does make you think and in some cases revise one's own views.

KOTS is correct on his post and he has put his own views down very forcefully for everyone to see and he has always been consistent with his views.

Some of the posters never ever give the club credit in whatever it does and the same posters jump in to criticize the club for a wide range of things.IE Trevor Hodgson, Trish Goldsmith, Adam Jude,the Tannoy system is too loud, the Tannoy system cannot be heard, Neil Barker has said this and that, the list goes on.

Most of the posters that I know who could be said to be "Pro the club" actually do put points of criticism forward but only when it is required and in a reasonable manner.

With regards the stadium, if we are all fed up with what has gone on and the length of time that has elapsed since it was first mentioned how do people think that the Chairman & Vice Chairman feel about the situation? considering the amount of their own money that they have put into the project?

Finally on the question of the season tickets, membership offer etc, people who I know who support soccer and other Rugby teams cannot understand how fans at Salford City Reds can complain over the prices that we are being asked to pay and some have questioned whether our support base is as loyal as we make out.

Some of the negative posters here will just moan about anything in my opinion. But some people on here also lean too much towards the side of the club on certain issues, which probably annoys just as many people as the regular moaners do.

No real solution to it. If there are so many things that people see fit to moan about then it probably reflects the current direction that the club appear to be heading.

What have I done wrong

Out of John Wilkinson's and the other director's pockets.

Good topic Iain.

Trouble with most of the defenders of the club on here is they must live in a big red Salford RLFC/John Wilkinson bubble

It drives me insane when the past failings of the club are totally ignored by some.

I've been a supporter for 30+ years and have attended most events and constantly hear the same old crap year in year out. I'm sure Wilky has got his start/end of season speech on tape, you know the one we've all heard it, for those of you who have only recently being attending I can confirm it was the same in 1982 as it is now.

Dont reply to me with "well what else do you want him to say"? It's pathetic. Same crap with the ground as well, I have a letter from the council here dated 2002 with a planning application on it, its now nearly 2010 and not much has changed by the way of bricks and mortar. For those who say it will be built, you said that in 2002, you said it in 2003, 2004 etc. etc. In fact some of you have been that hoodwinked by the club over past promises and events I wouldn't be surprised if I found out they introduced you to Derren Brown way back when. I've been privvy to other information recently that adds yet more weight in favour that the ground will be built but until I see it going up I won't be writting stupid statements on here to the contrary. I am in favour of the new ground and wish the club all the success in obtaining it.

I want Salford to succeed just as much as anyone but I was born with a gift of common sense and I've learnt not to suffer fools gladly. I'm not stupid to think I know more than anyone else but those who do know me know I have a close relationship to the club, I get told things that maybe I shouldn't and I hear things that others would give their right arm for. To be told things by those 'allegedly in the know'? or those who say "what can I do better" on here the answer is unsurprisingly nothing. I don't have a say in the board room! But to be told I'm a whinger or some other derogatory word get a grip will you. The truth is better than the lies. Like KOTS said "maybe your in the wrong place".

Some of you get too swallowed up by the whole emotional rollercoaster ride of the club and maybe thats fairplay but I prefer to listen to sound reasoned debate than out and out blind loyalty.