I see your point, but I would take a slightly difference stance on it. The responsibility of a business is to its stakeholders, which includes the shareholders and customers (supporters, commercial sponsors et al). In theory they are mutually bound: it doesn't make sense for shareholders to alienate customers because they may stop coming, thus devaluing the shareholding.

So I kind of agree, but I think paying through the gate should entitle you a stake in the club of some variety.

Shame on you for ruining such a brilliant post with utter out and out lies

Great debate & great post showing you will never please everyone, we all have different view, I have found myself reading through the posts actually agreeing with different views expressed.
My beef with the club is the lack of PR & marketing of the club, surely a club with the aspirations of Super league & a new stadium should be putting forward the positive work the club do, just look at our shop, which clearly show how the club is viewed compared to most other super league clubs, very poor & amerteurish.

Overall as a dedicated season ticket holder for more years than I care to remember I actually trust the club to deliver its promise & as long as I have this believe, I personally have a goal.

Finally we need to realise we are in the worst recession we have known. It will be the company's who protect there businesses during this difficult period, who will be in business long term, Salford are no different.

A sporting club should never, ever, be about satisfying shareholders.

Mès que un club.

Probably the best topic for discussion there's been on here for a while.

I think the thread about the new away kits sums it up. Some of us think it's awful, we say so, and people come running to the club's defence, telling us that we're just whinging for the sake of it, the club can't do anything right in our eyes, blah blah. As long as people have a constructive, valid opinion, then surely they shouldn't be derided for that? Even if someone is coming on talking sh*t (the chairman doesn't spend enough money, it's the club's fault the stadium won't happen, they all lied to us, blah blah blah) then the best thing to do is to counter those posts with constructive arguments, rather than sarcastic, patronising posts. And, OK, I may have done one or two of those myself in the past, but just ignore that for now.



Having a negative opinion on something is not illegal. Nor does it mean you are not committed to the club. Nor does it mean that you think the club cannot do anything right at all. It just means you don't like something that has happened. I don't like the shirt. I don't like the brand of rugby we play. I don't like the fact that the draught beer at the Willows is shocking. I don't like the lack of variety in the stuff available in the club shop - especially for those of us who like our merchandise to be a bit more subtle. Does that mean I can't acknowledge the good things that happen at the club? The things they are doing right? The fact that, in a lot of cases, they are clearly trying to make things better? Of course not. It just means I don't like one or two things that go on.

Take, for instance, something that's happened to me this week. I emailed the club on Tuesday night, on the membership email address, asking a couple of questions about the ST/membership order before I finalised everything. I then received a phone call on the Wednesday from someone in the office who said "we notice you've not renewed your season ticket yet." Erm... I emailed the club last night with a couple of questions... He didn't know about that and could only really answer one question properly. I still haven't received a response to the email.

So - the fact that the club are chasing up non-renewals is good. The fact that they're not responding to emails and that there's no communication between departments is bad.

So, maybe the staunch club apologists need to think on slightly before launching an attack on those who 'whinge'.

Sorry but that's just plain wrong (IMHO) - if a business doesn't satisfy its shareholders then it goes out of business - end of!

Now you could well argue that a sporting club is different, and perhaps those owned by supporter's trusts etc ( interesting that your quote is from Barcelona!) are different, but as long as most in the UK are constituted as limited companies, governed by the Companies Act then by law the shareholders are the ultimate arbiters of what the company does and how it is run.

The trick of course, is to marry the shareholder's interests with the fans'! But that's easier said than done.

I am a shareholder and a season ticket holder but out of the two I'd think my season ticket carries more weight (and so it should).

I would argue that [isport[/i in general is different and your basis for the business is incorrect. Shareholders can and do move on when not satisfied but sport has its very own intrinsic value with an intangible product that defies your philosophy.

Anyway get back on topic, this thread is a discussion about people having a whinge and not discussing the politics of business.

Some, including myself, believe without JW we simply wouldn't have a club support (or bemoan, if that's your thing).

Forward thinkers? Shoot them!

Geez, some people really do get [i"swallowed up by the whole emotional rollercoaster ride"[/i don't they?


30+ years of lies and crap? [i"Maybe your in the wrong place"?[/i

As for being hoodwinked - Until we're certain the stadium is NOT going to be built, how exactly have the club deceived me?

When/if the chairman gets to thank Salford fans for their patience and support in the face of many difficulties throughout this project, perhaps you could stand to one side?

Not true! You can have a jolly good rant about it on a web forum...

Ha! I love that last bit!.. 'This is a fans forum for the truth-tellers (moaning-ar$es) - if you don't like it, pi$$ off, you're getting the way of my next grumble'.

I too prefer to listen to reasoned debate - over thoughtless, petty ramblings that serve no purpose other than to appease the contibutor's penchant for whining.

My take on this is simple - Our (apologists and misery ar$es) ambitions for this club will most likely always out-way the reality. That we have in common. It's how we each choose to deal with the disappointments that differs.
The ST, as for as I can see, has just become a dumping ground for cynical observations and people who still, after 6months, can't recognise the Myler sale as a fantastic and necessary bit of business.
(And yes, I understand the irony of whinging at length about people's whinging).

I'm so glad this thread has come along as I've been thinking of responding to this subject for a while now, it's one of the reasons I like others don't bother posting to often nowadays.

I think some posters either are directors or at least think they are, there views however are as see through as the whingers.

I know there a a few on here who are at best well NUTS but I'm absolutely fed up with and find some of the apologists offensive. The nutters have the right to be nuts sometimes there funny/uneducated or just plain daft, but one things for sure and that is someone on here who thinks they are better than cleverer than more loyal than will be hammering them down quicker than Usain Bolt doing the 100 . Anything from condescending sanctimonious bullsh*t to telling other fans where to go and how to get there.

I feel sorry for those whom appear less intelligent and less elequent as they are sleighed at every corner as though they have commited an act of treason, so what if they slate the club there must be some passion there at least enough to be concerned about what does or doesn't go on at the club unlike the other 98% of the Salford public.

There are people on here who would be assured the moon was made from cheese if the club said so and as for you non believers go find another moon >>

Live and let live if you want to be mr positive then be it but don't berate others who incidentially have a view on all things Salford RLFC just not the same view as you !!!!!

I notice the defence is on the whole quiet on this thread maybe a corporate statement is being drafted. Off with there heads ?

The Black Cat wrote: I've been privvy to other information recently that adds yet more weight in favour that the ground will be built but until I see it going up I won't be writting stupid statements on here to the contrary. I am in favour of the new ground and wish the club all the success in obtaining it.

When/if the chairman gets to thank Salford fans for their patience and support in the face of many difficulties throughout this project, perhaps you could stand to one side?

Fu*ckin hell mate you cant blame him for being ed of about the stadium he does have a point just tell me how long its bin going on again he has got evrey right after the amount of false promises we have had on it!!

OK - So whats your plan? Can you find another 3 to take out the 3 in the Boardroom at the moment.

Will your three please Guarantee the clubs Overdarft and introduce sufficient monies to buy the share/loans of the current Directors and then as an extra find another £200k per annum just to balance the books?

So your new theree will have to find about £1.5 million currently. Please would you supply the names and addresses of your new Board and I will forward them to John, Howard and Ian and I am sure they will resign as soon as your new Directors cheques have cleared.

some good posts and some better posts, we all have the freedom of speech to voice our opinions, I have only one small gripe, I like a lot of the stuff the club shop sells, I know its only a small range but I can rarely get anything to fit, a Rugby Club should be looking at its XXXL fans because they would get a lot more cash out of me if they did. On the other hand i have just spent two hours in Manchester in two of the biggest retailers in the country Next and Primark, multi-million pound turnover companies with millions of square footage on our high streets and i couldn't find ONE single Top to fit me, the club have managed this with my "free" shirt last year, so they have done better than the nationals.
As a man with a ST at United and Salford I know which would screw me, ignore me and most likely s41t on me and which owner would make time to talk to me. John has been honest and open as he can be, and his pockets are not as deep as other owners, but I would say without him there would be no Salford to moan about. Just look across town the American gimp has banned ex-players from watching matches, thats how to win friends and influence people not. Nobody is 100% perfect not even me, but when we look at the new ground experience, late Council support, Manchester council objecting credit crunch I just wonder how bad was John in a previous life.

Think I've just received it

Me and my big mouth

At least I was right with the Usain Bolt bit.

Just stating the facts as I see them, Shag. Never said I have a better option and in fact, I don't.

For the record, with a few notable exceptions that I have highlighted before I believe that the majority of people employed by Salford are doing the best they can with the (usually limited) talent and resources they have. There's a few people who could at best be described as ornamental but the others are trying, if not always succeeding (that doesn't mean I'm not going to highlight any flaws as I see them and that others aren't entitled to).

The problems at Salford remain more or less the same as they were when I first started watching. Namely,

1. Setting expectations: this is simply regular, concise, honest communication. Four words that seem to mean little within the bowels of Salford RLFC. The reason we can't have a club shop that is online, open 24/7 and able to stock a wide range of merchandise is because we don't have enough fans who are willing to put their hands in their pockets to pay for merchandise. It's simple economies of scale. A lot of the moaning could be reduced by someone simply coming out and saying this.

Likewise with the Stadium situation. Only our most simple-minded fans expect to be privy to the particulars of the negotiations between us and Peel or the Council and Peel or whoever, but I find it very hard to believe that any of the parties involved would object to some short, regular updates along the lines of: We are currently waiting on Party X to negotiate with Party Y concerning issue Z and so on. Surely everyone can see this is better than the mushroom approach we've all become so accustomed to, and it would certainly undermine a lot of the rumours, general b******t and negativity that arises to fill the gap left by a lack of credible, current information.

2. Elementary f*** ups: cf. the Season Ticket debacle. I don't need to go over the issues there.

I still believe that the Club doesn't seek to genuinely engage with supporters on an ongoing basis. Sure they'll send some of the players down to Forever Reds every few weeks to answer some pointless questions but that's not the same as engaging with the fans. I can't recall ever being directly asked what I want from Salford as a supporter at any point throughout my sixteen years (including many years as a Season Ticket holder, involvement with both SRISA and Forever Reds, being a long term poster on here and being one of the most proactive supporters on the terraces for several years - it's not as if I and many others with similar backgrounds aren't easily reachable).

3. Investment. There's not much anyone can do about this (as you point out).

You can certainly never please everyone but there's too many occasions when the Club make a rod for their own back and invite criticism onto themselves. Hence a lot of the discussions (moaning) on here.

The current situation is doing a lot to drive away many time served Reds and again I think this is coming through in the amount of moaning on here. I never thought I'd say it but despite being perfectly able to there's a pretty good chance I won't attend a single game next year. There is absolutely nothing that excites me on or off the pitch. Too many people have reached breaking point and are no longer prepared to let things slide that perhaps they would have done in the past.

Wasnt something posted on Red's site a couple of weeks ago re the On-line shop being set up , cant remember which thread I noticed under, but definitly saw it.

Sleighed? If only they were! The patients have very much taken over the asylum...


This hypocrisy keeps rearing itself:
- Happy to pigeon-hole the hoodwinked, brainwashed, condescending, cheese-beliving bullsh*tter/s who live in a bubble.
- Outraged by the berating of 'others who don't share the same view'.




I refer you to the point I made earlier:

Common thread here we all love the club.
Unfortunately the PR, Marketing communication is a pile of $hite.
New stadium.... Sir John said there will be a announcement in a couple of weeks, still waiting.
New signings.. are you honestly looking forward to next year ?
Myler.. the money went onthe tax bill why ? and what about the wage bill offered to him.
I live without the red coloured spectacles, I get enough spin and crap from MUFC.
Infomation and facts not hearsay thats all I want

Please explain why, oh you of the coloured spectacles type

I've wasted enough time here friend.

people winge lots because they care, being a salford fan is a rollercoaster ride of emotion and thats before you talk about actually goin to the match and watch the team yo yo performance wise.

I think off the field the club are doin the best they can with the limited resources and money they have.

us the fans and the club need to stand up and realise what we are the classic underdog, the torch carrier for the little teams that dreams that one day they will be competative in superleague, if our dreams die theirs do to.

Every dog has its day it works in cycles, everyone in superleague is skint apart from the odd exception, we have always bin skint so its not a big a change for us? We are probably the best at working on a shoe string

i hope the club read this thread and mikes wise words and take what us the fans want, just a bit of honesty sometimes so we are not in the dark about everythin all the time.

Bingo. An example would be a certain local non-league football club who've only been in existence since 2005. They've been trying to get a ground for a while now and discussions have been going on with Manchester City Council since 2005. Now, the club's members, who are actually shareholders, still aren't privy to all the dealings between the council and the club's board. However, the board are always available to tell people everything they can and never shy away from the issue. The club make as many announcements as possible as where they're up to so nobody is left in the dark. They even had Richard Leese, leader of Manchester City Council come to the club's AGM so that he could answer questions about the council's committment to the project and shed more light on why things were at a standstill and we're still waiting for the site to be announced.

Now, if a non league football club run by volunteers can do this, why can't Salford? Why can't Peel? Why can't Salford City Council? It would do them a lot of favours.



It's funny how everyone on here is happy to take part in a reasoned debate, yet you still put your points across using emoticons and patronising nonsense. People might see your point of view more if you didn't just act like you're right and we're all wrong.

I am glad this thread has come along!

it seems to me that the majority of supporters all have the same views as to 'were the club is going wrong' for the past few months and certainly on the terraces in the past couple of seasons there seems to be a huge divide between supporters that should be united in one thing, supporting the club.

now i am not saying for one moment that some are supporting the club and some are'nt the simple fact is we are all showing our passion for SRLFC at the same time just in different ways!
i would consider myself one of them that jumps to the clubs defence where i see fit but this does'nt mean that i think everything is rosy and that the club do no wrong

The club and the people running it are doing an absolutely amazing job at marketing the club on the corporate side of things for a good few years now and we have established strong relationships with local businesses, proof of this is in the amount of sponsorship the club receive. [ii think we are one of the most sponsored clubs in superleague?[/i

Now we all know that our fanbase isnt the best and they need to take their ability to sell the club on a corperate side of things over to being able to sell the club to the people of salford. im sure we can all remember the poster campaign(sp?) during the 2007 season and you were able to see these posters everywhere you went in salford, nobody could argue that this wasnt the club trying their hardest to get people in.
BUT after the defeat to Hull KR and then followed by the actual confirmation that we were more than likely going down i didnt see one more poster that had been put up to advertise the next home game (i think there were two) that match clearly deflated us as fans but indeed even the staff at the club! i would like to see another advertising campaign!

there is so much more that could be included in my post but it has probably taken you half an hour to get to this point



all in all i think the club are doing a great job on a whole like some have mentioned had it not been for the tireless effort and hard work from the people who run the company from the top down i dont think we would even have a club to discuss

i hope you dont think this post was 'utter tripe'