Pardon my ignorance...

When did Saints adopt the red vee? During the late 60s, I assume? For what reason did they do this?

Just out of curiousity. Thanks.

1961 Challenge Cup Final.

Taken from St Georges strip.

i agree with sadfish.but a lot of people round st.helens say that the v was adopted from local bookmaker and director at the time bob collins,whose racing colours were a red v.he used to advertise regularly in the match programme.
but if our heritage site boss says it is copied from st.george,then who i am i to disagree.
i allways thought the reason we wore it for wembley was just a one off,to avoid a clash with the hoops of wigan,we wore a red band(hkr style)at the time

Your points could be correct my friend.

I know it was the 1961 cup final where it wasa first used and I know St George where using it at the time.

We didn't start to use it for a while after thart for league games so your comments may hold true.

I've not seen any documented evidence either way, maybe Batesy or Service or Dooley might know more.

But its the St George link that I hear most.

Inerestingly In the 1966 final Saints wore a White shirt with a Red Vee and Wigan wore a red shirt with a White Vee. Is the reason it stuck something to do with this?

Is that correct? I'm sure I've seen pictures from that match and I don't remember that.

indeed it is.

1961 Cup final

Saints......


Wigan....



1966 cup final

Saints.....


Wigan.....

Blimey - I obviously hadn't seen those pictures! Cheers Fishie.

The Saints Heritage Society have negotiated copyright to display the videos availalbe from the Gerrard Collection on its webiste, the page is here www.saints.org.uk/saints.org.uk/ ... age_id=333 Go watch its the only colour archive we know of of these two games.

The Saints Heritage Society have negotiated copyright to display the videos availalbe from the Gerrard Collection on its webiste, the page is here www.saints.org.uk/saints.org.uk/ ... age_id=333 Go watch its the only colour archive we know of of these two games.

My recollection of 1966 and what I was told of 1961 are that both clubs changed jerseys because of a clash. In those days very few people bought replica shirts and even fewer second choice shirts ; I say second choice because I recall that in those days in the event of a colour clash the home team changed strip. Both sets of supporters at Wembley would have had red/cherry and white scarves hats etc and it was felt unfair to make either team change colours.

If I remember the Red Vee shirt became associated with big matches and in 1965-66 as many replica shirts with the Vee (worn only once that season - at Wembley) were bought as those with the band.

I certainly remember one big match between Wigan and Saints for which both were allowed to keep their traditional shirts albeit with minor changes. I cannot remember whether Wigan had narrower or broader hoops than usual and whether Saints had a broader or narrower Vee than usual. Again I'm not sure whether by that time Saints had adopted the Vee for good or whether it was still their "big game" shirt.

I had a picture of that 66 match of Boston in action, never been able to get it back from the old pub landlord though

LOL - Gardner would be a prop in those days. Look at those bandy legs!

They were generally smaller than today. I remember a few years back when my father-in-law dug out his dads (played in the '56 wembley win) shirt and couldn't fathom how it wouldn't fit him? He remembered his dad as a monster, but in truth was no more than 12st. It makes their achievements even greater IMO.

That's one camp pose there

How many of the above would it take to bring down Manu Vatuvei going full tilt?

Quote ="Sadfish"The Saints Heritage Society have negotiated copyright to display the videos availalbe from the Gerrard Collection on its webiste, the page is here www.saints.org.uk/saints.org.uk/ ... age_id=333 Go watch its the only colour archive we know of of these two games.'" What were those Wiganers thinking? (first shot on the 61 film)

Quote ="Sadfish"The Saints Heritage Society have negotiated copyright to display the videos availalbe from the Gerrard Collection on its webiste, the page is here www.saints.org.uk/saints.org.uk/ ... age_id=333 Go watch its the only colour archive we know of of these two games.'" What were those Wiganers thinking? (first shot on the 61 film)

The Wigan 66 photo
Ray Ashby, Cliff Hill, Frankie Parr (A hero of mine) and Danny Gardiner (animal on the field but a real gent off it)

And that looks like the one and only Brian McTigue at no. 10.

Now there was a man nobody messed with.

Yep ...what a pack they had, and that hooker ....never did get named in the program did he

I wonder if we'll be alowed to play our Cup Final at Wembley again in the same year as a World cup final. You know how these football people are about their grounds

Dont see why not, not that I know a lot about football but isnt the world cup usually in June/July most surely before the CCF, as long as the RFL dont change it from August bank holiday w/e

I have no reason to doubt the St George link, but what was the reason behind it, why did Saints want to copy an Aussie team's strip? Was there a relationship between the 2 clubs at the time?

True - but it's 9 years away I think - a lot cab happen then. Who knows, we might be in an all year round summer game by then

Tom Woosey



Howell got three matches for that "tackle"on Friday.

Clarke got two matches for a technical offence "foot up in the scrum".

It had never happened before and to my knowledge has never happened since.

Why, I thank you for the history lesson, some will find if fascinating reading.
For myself I use a much quoted little verse,
Roses are red, Violets are blue,
Saints 21 wigan 2.

Strange how one forgets the unimportant bits

Not as good as :-
In 1989 we thought we were in heaven
Saints NIL Wigan Twenty Seven.