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| Quote ="garroway"australia had hayne (dally m 2009) full back for paramatta on the wing today.'"
All the more reason to pick Fox ahead of Briscoe then for the reasons I've mentioned above.
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| Quote ="General Zod."This afternoon's game is proof of just how ridiculas the Tom Briscoe verses Fox debate.
The hard evidence proved the harsh reality that Tom Briscoe was way, way out of his depth as an international winger and for any FC fan to claim that it was a mistake is nothing shirt of pathetic considering the hard evidence of a second-half scoreline of 16-0 is total vindication that it was the correct decision.
Whilst I partially agree with FC fans that Briscoe "did nothing wrong" and Smith was for the more at fault in terms of defensive positioning, Tom Briscoe does not have the pace to counter long-range threats or neither the agility to turn quick enough to defend short-range kicks which made the Aussie game-plan easy.
In last weeks game against France, Tom Briscoe's lack of agility was exposed when Bosc put a kick through for Pelo and he took an age to turn and it was so obvious to anyone that the Aussie game-plan would be to kick behind Tom Briscoe knowing that by the time he recovered the ball, the defensive line would be smothering him, leaving England on the back foot without any chance of an effective "exit set".
Had Fox played in that position today, whilst he like Tom Briscoe couldn't have done anything about Smith's woeful positioning, the Aussies long range threat is nullified. For instance, where Tom Briscoe was making minimal gain on Inglis, Fox would have cut him down.
I think today's game proved that English players aren't all that bad as they are made out to be with Crabtree proving his worth (to many on this site who said he wouldn't) and also big raps to Westwood who proved me wrong.
If England are to win the final (should they beat NZ) then they have to nullify the the Aussies long-range threat, and if they are to do that properly, then Fox [ihas[/i to play.
The sad thing is, many FC fans would have been happy to leave Tom Briscoe on the pitch and see us get annihilated by 60+ just to save face.'"
Although I think that Briscoe was badly let down by Smith at times, I don't think he did anything to justify his selection ahead of Fox today, although I liked the way he dealt with the 40/20 effort. I like Briscoe as a player and think he's and excellent talent, I just think Fox looks more likely to do something exciting. I'd have been suprised if Fox didn't cut Inglis down too. Shaun Briscoe about neck and neck with Tom when they were chasing him downand Foxy is far faster than Shaun.
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| fox has speed and thats it, tell you what im fast can i play... thats all he has is speed!!!
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| Quote ="garroway"fox has speed and thats it, tell you what im fast can i play... thats all he has is speed!!!'"
He nearly allways lands on his front and gets a quick play of the ball the majority of the time. Plus, he makes plenty of yards in the tackle too and is pretty strong, he generally lookes likely to make a bust.
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| Quote ="garroway"fox has speed and thats it, tell you what im fast can i play... thats all he has is speed!!!'"
Err, yeah ok - that's why he's the current SL Dream Team winger...
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| Quote ="GJB"He nearly allways lands on his front and gets a quick play of the ball the majority of the time. Plus, he makes plenty of yards in the tackle too and is pretty strong, he generally lookes likely to make a bust.'"
Not important what-so-ever apparently. You see, all you need to is to be a Hull FC player and not knock-on that much - it doesn't matter if your lack of athletic ability is a weak link that the Aussies continually target...
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| Quote ="knocker norton"Give over this is England not local rivalry!
Think Lee Smith has got away with murder this afternoon.'" Spot on should not be in the squad as he is going to union,so much for building for the future!
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| Quote ="General Zod."Not important what-so-ever apparently. You see, all you need to is to be a Hull FC player and not knock-on that much - it doesn't matter if your lack of athletic ability is a weak link that the Aussies continually target...
'" lack off athletic ability?, whats toms lack then?
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| Quote ="General Zod."Err, yeah ok - that's why he's the current SL Dream Team winger...
'"
Lee Penny was the Dream Team winger in 2007.
With hindsight it was silly to play a 19-year-old centre on the wing against Australia, particularly seeing that he was hung out to dry by his centre. Whether Fox would have done any better is just speculation. The fact is he's badly out of form so he would have been targetted also given Hall is on the other wing.
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| Quote ="General Zod."Err, yeah ok - that's why he's the current SL Dream Team winger...
'" oh yes sorry, forgot about that!!!
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| Quote ="garroway"lack off athletic ability?, whats toms lack then?'"
Speed and agility in bucket loads.
The thing is, at 19 years of age, these should be a young three-quarter's main attributes.
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| Quote ="General Zod."Speed and agility in bucket loads.
The thing is, at 19 years of age, these should be a young three-quarter's main attributes.'" speed???, sorry to go back to club v club but didnt he score a 70 metre try against a certain team not so long ago and if i remember rightly 5 chased him and no-one caught him, now correct me if im wrong, oh and it was a standing start!
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| Quote ="garroway"speed???, sorry to go back to club v club but didnt he score a 70 metre try against a certain team not so long ago and if i remember rightly 5 chased him and no-one caught him, now correct me if im wrong, oh and it was a standing start!'"
Given another 5 metres, Vella would have!
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"Lee Penny was the Dream Team winger in 2007.
With hindsight it was silly to play a 19-year-old centre on the wing against Australia, particularly seeing that he was hung out to dry by his centre.'"
Voice of reason. And Tony Smith should take some responsibility for playing him in the first place because he's only a young kid learning his trade.
Quote ="Mrs Barista"Whether Fox would have done any better is just speculation.'"
To people who don't understand anything about strengths and attributes of either player maybe.
Quote ="Mrs Barista"The fact is he's badly out of form so he would have been targetted also given Hall is on the other wing.'"
Which would have resulted in quicker and better exit sets enabling our forwards to get a role on.
The only reason I think FC fans make a big deal about the odd knock-on is that the RL you've been watching at the KC must have been worse than I've read about in the paper.
You really don't have a clue of how important a role the back-three
play in modern RL do you
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| Quote ="GJB"Given another 5 metres, Vella would have!
'" slowed down for the line ha ha
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| Quote ="garroway"speed???, sorry to go back to club v club but didnt he score a 70 metre try against a certain team not so long ago and if i remember rightly 5 chased him and no-one caught him, now correct me if im wrong, oh and it was a standing start!'"
The chasers where diagonal runs.
The hard evidence was there for all to see - the kid does not have any significant pace so why can't FC fans like you just accept the fact?
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| Quote ="General Zod."Voice of reason. And Tony Smith should take some responsibility for playing him in the first place because he's only a young kid learning his trade.
To people who don't understand anything about strengths and attributes of either player maybe.
Which would have resulted in quicker and better exit sets enabling our forwards to get a role on.
The only reason I think FC fans make a big deal about the odd knock-on is that the RL you've been watching at the KC must have been worse than I've read about in the paper.
You really don't have a clue of how important a role the back-three
play in modern RL do you
'" are you peter fox???
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| Quote ="garroway"are you peter fox???'"
Yes. Do you want to claim your £5?
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| Quote ="General Zod."Voice of reason. And Tony Smith should take some responsibility for playing him in the first place because he's only a young kid learning his trade.
To people who don't understand anything about strengths and attributes of either player maybe.
Which would have resulted in quicker and better exit sets enabling our forwards to get a role on.
The only reason I think FC fans make a big deal about the odd knock-on is that the RL you've been watching at the KC must have been worse than I've read about in the paper.
You really don't have a clue of how important a role the back-three
play in modern RL do you
'"
I'm not having a go at Fox and recognise that he's had a very good season. But he is out of form as you have posted several times yourself, as have other Rovers fans. I don't share your utter confidence that he would automatically have rediscovered his top form against sustained pressure from the world's best team. Smith should have picked Briscoe against France and left it at that for now. FWIW I don't see Briscoe as a winger anyway. Would you have put Welham (also a young centre, albeit 3 years older than Briscoe) on the wing today, for example?
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista" FWIW I don't see Briscoe as a winger anyway. Would you have put Welham (also a young centre, albeit 3 years older than Briscoe) on the wing today, for example?'"
Of course not, but Kris has never played a SL game on the wing. Briscoe might be considered a centre by you and many FC fans, but how many SL games has he played at centre?
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"I'm not having a go at Fox and recognise that he's had a very good season. But he is out of form as you have posted several times yourself, as have other Rovers fans. I don't share your utter confidence that he would automatically have rediscovered his top form against sustained pressure from the world's best team. Smith should have picked Briscoe against France and left it at that for now. FWIW I don't see Briscoe as a winger anyway. Would you have put Welham (also a young centre, albeit 3 years older than Briscoe) on the wing today, for example?'"
Even Peter Fox in very, very poor form would have still contributed way more than Tom Briscoe.
I agree about him not being a winger, but even in the long term he won't make an international centre. The kid has the mobility and strength of a forward and I could see him maybe moved into the second-row one day depending on who's coaching FC.
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| Quote ="General Zod."Even Peter Fox in very, very poor form would have still contributed way more than Tom Briscoe.
I agree about him not being a winger, but even in the long term he won't make an international centre. The kid has the mobility and strength of a forward and I could see him maybe moved into the second-row one day depending on who's coaching FC.'" 3 games 3 tries for briscoe ha ha!
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| Quote ="General Zod."This afternoon's game is proof of just how ridiculas the Tom Briscoe verses Fox debate.
The hard evidence proved the harsh reality that Tom Briscoe was way, way out of his depth as an international winger and for any FC fan to claim that it was a mistake to bring him off at half-time is nothing shirt of pathetic considering the hard evidence of a second-half scoreline of 16-0 is total vindication that it was the correct decision.
Whilst I partially agree with FC fans that Briscoe "did nothing wrong" and Smith was for the more at fault in terms of defensive positioning, Tom Briscoe does not have the pace to counter long-range threats or neither the agility to turn quick enough to defend short-range kicks which made the Aussie game-plan easy
In last weeks game against France, Tom Briscoe's lack of agility was exposed when Bosc put a kick through for Pelo and he took an age to turn and it was so obvious to anyone that the Aussie game-plan would be to kick behind Tom Briscoe knowing that by the time he recovered the ball, the defensive line would be smothering him, leaving England on the back foot without any chance of an effective "exit set".
Had Fox played in that position today, whilst he like Tom Briscoe couldn't have done anything about Smith's woeful positioning, the Aussies long range threat is nullified. For instance, where Tom Briscoe was making minimal gain on Inglis, Fox would have cut him down.
I think today's game proved that English players aren't all that bad as they are made out to be with Crabtree proving his worth (to many on this site who said he wouldn't) and also big raps to Westwood who proved me wrong.
If England are to win the final (should they beat NZ) then they have to nullify the the Aussies long-range threat, and if they are to do that properly, then Fox [ihas[/i to play.
The sad thing is, many FC fans would have been happy to leave Tom Briscoe on the pitch and see us get annihilated by 60+ just to save face.'"
Do you have any idea of rugby league at all or have u been sniffing marker pens again??
I have never read such drivel!!
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| Quote ="Chris1953"Do you have any idea of rugby league at all or have u been sniffing marker pens again??
I have never read such drivel!!'"
The truth hurts I see.
Come back with a reasoned debate - if you're capable of course...
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| Quote ="Chris1953"Do you have any idea of rugby league at all or have u been sniffing marker pens again??
I have never read such drivel!!'"
Well try reading some of your own posts back and you will soon "calibrate" your drivel meter.
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