To be fair why the feck did Agar not put some kind of matting at the botom of those stairs or even better have a couple of blokes on hand to carry the player around to save him having to try and walk?

1, No structure in attack.(no dummy runners, no support)
2.No defensive line speed.
3,Slow play the ball.
4 Slow passing

These basics should be attainable with a decent coach.

Maguire and Brown came in and instilled these basic core skills,

Why cant Agar do the same??

You see it's comments like that that really devalue an argument. It implies that you are aware that what you are saying is flawed so you try to preempt the response and belittle it.

I accept that Agar can't physically go around and drag his players out of the pubs and most RL players like to go on the p!ss but that's really not the point. What Agar could be doing is creating a culture of discipline and respect so that the players wouldn't even consider doing it after a result like friday's. In fact if Agar was a really good coach, he'd have instilled enough belief in the squad that they can achieve great things that they wouldn't dream of getting in such a state so soon after a bad defeat.

For some reason you'd rather blame the players though and absolve Agar from blame. Oh, hang on a minute, isn't that what happened in Agar's first full season in charge? How's that worked out then? But let's not blame the head coach again, let's get him a 3rd new set of players to work with!

I know you don't support FC mate but your concern for Agar over your concern for the state of the club is shining through. You're having a laugh with excuses like that, fortunately after Friday 95% of the fanbase have seen through Agar and all the excuses.

As far as I am aware you are talking about the players who are 'slow passing' and playing the ball slowly?

Do you seriously think Agar is telling them to 'pass slowly'?

There are plenty of attacking moves in the bank but when the ball ends up in Lee Radfords hands on the 5th twice in ten minutes how do you think the set is going to end?

Like I have said, there are very few, if any, on here who have been to a training session, who know what Agar asks the players to do before a game, at training or on tip-sheets and none have heard what he has asked them to do.

You, like many others are presuming that he is not asking them to move up quickly, not asking them to 'pass quicker' and not giving them any attacking structure but I think you'll find the players are the ones choosing not to do these things.

Do you really think a guy who played in that position with James Webster as Assistant would not have more than a few attack plays in their system?

It is quite scary to be honest how many people think this is Agars fault.

He is far from blameless but feck me, have alook at what the players are doing.

I didn't hear too many complaining after the Crusaders game about 'attacking structure'. Do you think they just played off the cuff that night without a plan?

I have no concern for Rich Agar other than I dont want to see a good bloke lose his job because certain players think they are above club rules and can go drinking, one of which is injured and one of which plays about 10 minutes then blows out of backside. Professional? What a load of crap. They would be doing that whichever club they play for because they think they are superstars.

Trust me, if it wasn't for the holidaying CEO and his band of merry men I am sure some of these clowns would be out of their ear and some hard working players would be here in their place such.

Unfortunately players like Mike Burnett and Kyle Briggs dont sell season tickets and shirts at the start of the year however other SL clubs are happy to have them.

Again, I'm not saying Agar is blameless but he certainly aint the root of all evil and is not the clueless Muppet he is painted out to be.

I think every-one knows it is not all Agars fault, however he has to take responsibility, he choose these players, he trains these players and he is paid to motivate, control and discipline these players. Clearly Agar is not able to control them or get the best rugby out of them and because of such poor results Agar will have to be replaced and another coach brought in, this is sport and that is the way it is, we are in a results game, and Agars results are unfortunately pants

It comes down to what I said before though: Agar might know what a good side ought to be doing both on the field and off it, but actually getting them to do it on a regular basis is a very different matter. If he can't do it then we need to find someone that can.

It's ok saying that if it wasn't for xyz players that think they are superstars the whole culture would be different, but the 'superstars' need to be there to sell tickets and because any team that aims to compete at the top has them. If Agar can't manage them and get the best out of them it doesn't mean that nobody else can. It's like Ian Holloway at Blackpool, the guy is a good coach in terms of his approach being right for the job he has to do and the players he has to work with... it doesn't for a second mean that he'd be any good at managing the ego's in a squad like Chelsea's or Man City's. Agar is just in way over his head and 'good bloke losing his job' or not, it's becoming inevitable now and it's the best thing for all parties.

Errr NO!! - I dont think Agar instructs the players to pass slowly!!

Since Agar became head coach, the basic team skills I alluded to, have not improved.

All I will say is:

IF you train hard, and prepare well - 9 times out of 10, you will play well.

How do you control them though BB?

They banned them from Weir bar and they moved somewhere else.

You know who I am talking about here, do you really think those three are going to listen to anybody? They think they are above having to answer to people.

I'm not so sure he did choose all of these players either, however I dont know that to be right for certain.

From what I have been told by people within the dressing room he is a great motivator, proven on occasions. For some reason the lazy feckers out on the park who are taking the last pay day they can get dont worry about that.

You can see how hard Tom Briscoe, Radders, Fitz, Yeamo etc are trying but unless the rest of the players start putting in 100% on and off the pitch they will be wasting their energy.

So are you saying you want Agar, Webbo and Lasty to have players like Sean Long and Craig Fitzgibbon doing catch-pass drills all week?

If thats all it is then someone should tell Rich Agar

You could well be right but how many superstars do Huddersfield have?

I dont think a club of Hull's size needs superstars at all. They have one of the best followings in World Rugby when playing well and if you was top 3 with a team full of nobodies you would still be getting 15-18,000 for a lot of the games.

I think it boils down to the actual players here and I am not certain Rich Agar signed them all. Might be wrong on that however.

He should have dropped them and make it public like he did with Tansey, he got a lot of respect for that, yes it may shock a few on here that it is senior players (their heros), who are taking the piiss, and being exposed but it would have got Rich a lot more respect and understanding from the fans.

But thats what I said earlier (I think) I'm not sure he is allowed to drop some of these boys is he?

I honestly think he is allowed, although the problem he is now faced with and has been for a while is results, he has been on a slippery slope results wise for a while so he is probably under far too much pressure to drop them, also he will not want to give the perception that all is not well in the camp. I mentioned a split camp on here the other week and it was tossed aside by some well most really, so I can understand why the club would not want that out in the public domain it upsets the fans.

Yep, cant argue with any of that.

Some people taking the club for a ride and he cant do anything about it because they are some of his best players (when they decide to be)

warrington were classed as the underachievers and had a bad reputation of drinking and the rest, yet tony smith comes in installs some great disclipline without signing many players with basically the same squad takes them to 2 challenge cup wins and the secound best team in the league distroying a quins side now, would hull fc put a big score on a team like quins if they was there for the taking no we woundt crusaders were there for the taking yet we struggled at times and let them back in the game, when was the last time we actually destroyed a team you cant include friendlies

Well surely the coach should be banging there heads together and sorting the split. This is sounding like Kear all over again if so, so why does it keep happening at our club?

what i dont get is........what has it got to do with any of the fans wether x y and z players have gone out on the lash after a game and got wasted or whatever they do..........thats upto them not any of us

But the thing is, that kind of thing is continually allowed to happen. It's the same as the fact that Richard Horne's long kicking game is appalling, yet he is repeatedly given the ball on the last. Either they're being told to, or drop them for not listening.

Crusaders was as much about their poor defence as an improvement in our attack.

What completely undermines your argument here is that Agar was backed to the hilt with his cull at the beginning of his reign. We were told all about the clearout of dead wood and bad influences and the new discipline Agar was bringing. It was also shown again with the way Tansey was dismissed. So this stance that he is stuck with these players and he can't do anything about either their presence or their behaviour holds no water at all.

How do other clubs/coaches control their players then? Better coach, sign the right players in the first place , have the right structure in place...? Surely having a disciplined , bonded playing staff is part of the coaches job? He signs the players he wants , he looks after them and gets the best out of them. he's paid to do that and he's paid to communicate with the press and supporters these days. It's no good just wanting everything to be ok as a coach he has to make it so.

I think JM Sports might actually be Rich's Mam. That's the only sensible explanation I can see for his contributions to this thread.

Isn`t Garry Schofield looking for a job?

He certainly seems to have a soft spot for him, maybe when Agar finally gets the boot from FC JM Sports can fix him up with a job in the store room of his shop?