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| Quote ="Monkey Lover"You make valid points and as I don't really follow Hull KR that closely I may be wrong but I am pretty sure they have brought about 7 or 8 players into the first team in the last couple of seasons and apart from that Latus kid, who I remember thinking was perhaps a joke that I didn't understand, most of them seem to do ok and play quite regular.
We could argue/discuss all night if this crop are better than the Hull players who have come through and again about those that are sat waiting, the fact is I dont think it is as one sided as you say.
I would also take with a pinch of salt anything the RFL are involved in. I can well imagine Hull FC deserve to score more than Rovers in the points system but I stopped worrying about anything the RFL put their mind to a long time ago. If it is as clear cut as scoring points there is a big problem. The only thing an academy should be scored on is how many quality players come through and play in SL or the Championship in my opinion.
I like your analogy at the end but how about this one.
You have two businesses that have running costs of £10 each per year.
Business A) brings in about £7 and is running at a loss.
Business B) brings in about £5 and is running at a loss.
These companies merge with an annual running cost of £10 and bring in £12.
Is that not better for everyone involved including the shareholders?'"
You make some reasoned points, whatever your persuasion.
My own personal opinion is that I am not happy about this at all, for no reasoned argument other than I want my club, to be my club, our youngsters our ours etc.
I realise the financial arguments, and the other points you have made.
I'll tell you one things though. I have heard more than once people saying that no matter how bad things got on the field, they would have never not got a pass and supported the club (despite griping on here). Now, this could change.
So whatever the reasoned arguments, this move in the short term will damage the club as a whole.
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"I seem to be one of the few that find this a good thing.
Let me get the first thing off my chest: the "I don't want anything to do with Rovers" attitude is incredibly short sighted and smacks of cutting your nose off to spite your face. If there are benefits to our club from working with Rovers, then work with them. If we both get stronger, so what? I want to win trophies, not out do Rovers at all costs.
Secondly, "the way Leeds do it" by "getting into schools" is a good tactic in principle, but when you consider Leeds have a population three times the size of ours with no competition to share the fruits of their labour, you see the difference in strategy. Yes, there are local West Yorkshire clubs, but then they also have huge population areas themselves that they can target. We don't. Why would/should Hull FC invest a great deal of money into getting into schools only for Rovers to pick up the fruit of their hard work? Surely a joint concentrated effort from both clubs would be more efficient and spread the workload evenly?
If both clubs can work together on youth development (that being but only building up participation numbers but also athlete development) instead of against each other, we will both succeed? In fact there are a number of ways I'd like to see the clubs work together, particularly marketing. I loved the derby posters idea. If you look at the number of billboards City have around Hull advertising fixtures compared to ours, you can see where the sports fans of this city are more likely going to pay attention.
The real rival is football, not Rovers. Are we competing for the same fans? Not really. New fans, maybe, but then they're likely to go with the club most associated with them (depending on where they're from or who their friends/family support). Why not work together to bring out the dormant rugby league fans of this city (of which there are thousands) and target them rather than both fight over new fans?
Our rivalry on the field is unique, I'd never want it to go away. It's a huge selling point for both clubs. It doesn't mean we can't work together in other areas to improve both. Neither club are producing world class players. Something major needs to change. Throwing a contract at any old amateur to fill the academy is not only a waste of money but also not benefiting the top players at that age group. The best get better by training with the best, being trained by the bbest and playing against the best. Give it a chance.
Hopefully this new merged academy will also be heavily involved in schools development also.'"
You know what, you hit the nail on the head with the real challenge and competitor being football. People can lose sight in all walks of life as to whom and where the real competitive threat actually is. Good post.
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| I'm still sat on the fence with this and will and see how it pans out, as long as we get 2/3 players a season ready for SL it won't effect us, Rovers academy is pretty good and have turned out a few SL players and is getting better each year. I more worried about their transition into the first team.
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| The problem for the club right now is that performances are uninspiring therefore putting off those for whom attending is dependent on entertainment value/winning, and those who are diehard/would go regardless feel the alliance with KR is so fundamentally unacceptable they will withhold support too. The consequences of these two elements could be catastrophic. Failure to listen to and engage with supporters in a meaningful way is very dangerous. A rant in the HDM doesn't constitute this.
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"The problem for the club right now is that performances are uninspiring therefore putting off those for whom attending is dependent on entertainment value/winning, and those who are diehard/would go regardless feel the alliance with KR is so fundamentally unacceptable they will withhold support too. The consequences of these two elements could be catastrophic. Failure to listen to and engage with supporters in a meaningful way is very dangerous. A rant in the HDM doesn't constitute this.'"
More importantly than that I think I have just found you on twitter!!!
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| Quote ="Dave K."More importantly than that I think I have just found you on twitter!!!'"
Gives us a follow then, I'm closing in on 500
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| Quote ="Barnabus"I'm happy with the merger. The situation reminds me of what I do at the many dinner parties I attend. Show up with a bottle of Lambrini but spend the night drinking the Moet that someone else brought.
'"
It wouldn't be like that though. It would be more like paying to go to a dinner party and sharing what's on offer at a pre-paid bar.
As it stands, it's probably as you describe it, except instead of drinking the Moet that someone else bought, it'd be the Moet that someone has left over because they don't want it anymore. It's still something, but not exactly much.
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| What is wrong is they oth clubs do not promote the game in the schools [ they do bits.
Where are the school teams at Beverley,Brough,Driffield,Goole,Hornsea etc most have Union teams.
Even across the river seems no school teams yet again they have Union teams
You might say I am to long in the tooth and out of touch but all these areas are within easy travel distance of Hull.
When I was young if our school did not play the game we went to a youth club and played for them don't think that any youth clubs have a team now.
The present trend is gyms so lets try getting teams out of these like the old work teams.
If the PRO clubs don't try then just going to dry up at school level .
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| Quote ="oud3pstander"What is wrong is they oth clubs do not promote the game in the schools [ they do bits.
Where are the school teams at Beverley,Brough,Driffield,Goole,Hornsea etc most have Union teams.
Even across the river seems no school teams yet again they have Union teams
You might say I am to long in the tooth and out of touch but all these areas are within easy travel distance of Hull.
When I was young if our school did not play the game we went to a youth club and played for them don't think that any youth clubs have a team now.
The present trend is gyms so lets try getting teams out of these like the old work teams.
If the PRO clubs don't try then just going to dry up at school level .'"
I agree, we need to do far more on schools, but why would one club individually create a plan to develop the game in schools if the other will reap the benefits of it? This is exactly why the clubs NEED to be working together and have a strategy that helps BOTH rather than two poor strategies that help neither.
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| Quote ="The Dentist Wilf"Two long thread and not a mention of saving money As far as I and it would appear many other fans are concerned then however it is put to us no merger with Hull KR will ever be seen as anything but a sell out.
You can say whatever you like and as I say the fans will in the end decide what they will do come season ticket time. You seem to be an insider in all of this and its nice to have an official line on things, however if you are from one of the Clubs then you will know, as I do that "No secrets are being shared other than youth development" is a bit rich. You also seem to have a detailed angle on Mr Hudgells movements.
The fact that someone leaked the information may have pre determined the spin that the Clubs were putting on the pill to try and make it all acceptable to us, but its nice to be informed before we get a 'finished article' at least! I will watch with interest when you decide the time is right to release all the information to us the fans. But for now, for once I guess its quite ironic that the customers ain't the last to know!! get used to it, I and probably hundreds of other FC are uneasy when it comes to doing anything with Hull KR!'"
I am at a loss to understand your concern regards the merger of the academies Wilf. After all Hull FC already have the experience and know how when it comes to mergers and the intricate workings thereof so the experience gained previously will obviously be put to good effect when it comes to negotiations with Mr Hudgell.
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| Quote ="Structured"Quote ="The Dentist Wilf"Two long thread and not a mention of saving money As far as I and it would appear many other fans are concerned then however it is put to us no merger with Hull KR will ever be seen as anything but a sell out.
You can say whatever you like and as I say the fans will in the end decide what they will do come season ticket time. You seem to be an insider in all of this and its nice to have an official line on things, however if you are from one of the Clubs then you will know, as I do that "No secrets are being shared other than youth development" is a bit rich. You also seem to have a detailed angle on Mr Hudgells movements.
The fact that someone leaked the information may have pre determined the spin that the Clubs were putting on the pill to try and make it all acceptable to us, but its nice to be informed before we get a 'finished article' at least! I will watch with interest when you decide the time is right to release all the information to us the fans. But for now, for once I guess its quite ironic that the customers ain't the last to know!! get used to it, I and probably hundreds of other FC are uneasy when it comes to doing anything with Hull KR!'"
I am at a loss to understand your concern regards the merger of the academies Wilf. After all Hull FC already have the experience and know how when it comes to mergers and the intricate workings thereof so the experience gained previously will obviously be put to good effect when it comes to negotiations with Mr Hudgell.'"
I very much doubt there is anyone in a position of influence at Hull FC now who was there in 1999.
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| Quote ="Structured"I am at a loss to understand your concern regards the merger of the academies Wilf. After all Hull FC already have the experience and know how when it comes to mergers and the intricate workings thereof so the experience gained previously will obviously be put to good effect when it comes to negotiations with Mr Hudgell.'"
Troll, and not a very good one at that.
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| Quote ="Structured"I am at a loss to understand your concern regards the merger of the academies Wilf. After all Hull FC already have the experience and know how when it comes to mergers and the intricate workings thereof so the experience gained previously will obviously be put to good effect when it comes to negotiations with Mr Hudgell.'"
Maybe we could get Barry Lilley in as a consultant.
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| Quote ="Hessle Roader"Troll, and not a very good one at that.'"
Even worse hiding-place.
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| rugby league tomorrow on radio yorkshire,discussing the merger.
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| grudgel claiming both teams will still spend the same
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"grudgel claiming both teams will still spend the same
'"
Ha ha, are you suggesting that Pearson is going to merge the Academies and then pick up more than 50% of the cost?
You really do have a downer on his abilities don't you? Did he reject your advances or something?
The guy is a successful businessman and has had a reasonable career in sport, one that keeps getting him opportunities offered, are you really expecting him to let Hull KR have the club over?
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| Quote ="Monkey Lover"Ha ha, are you suggesting that Pearson is going to merge the Academies and then pick up more than 50% of the cost?
You really do have a downer on his abilities don't you? Did he reject your advances or something?
The guy is a successful businessman and has had a reasonable career in sport, one that keeps getting him opportunities offered, are you really expecting him to let Hull KR have the club over?'"
He's saying what Hudgell said - I heard him say it too.
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| Quote ="Staffs FC"He's saying what Hudgell said - I heard him say it too.'"
So Hudgell, who is well know for taking the mickey, said he would be taking advantage of Hull FC and people believe it?
Or was this an Official comment I have missed? If it is I apologise and would start to question if Adam Pearson is drinking too much!
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| Quote ="Monkey Lover"Ha ha, are you suggesting that Pearson is going to merge the Academies and then pick up more than 50% of the cost?
You really do have a downer on his abilities don't you? Did he reject your advances or something?
The guy is a successful businessman and has had a reasonable career in sport, one that keeps getting him opportunities offered, are you really expecting him to let Hull KR have the club over?'"
That wasn't my point and I don't have a clue what each clubs spends on their academies any more than you do. My point is that the claim was that the clubs aren't doing it to save money which I don't believe.
As for rejecting pearson's advances, I've never met the guy but I presume you'd be in there like a flash if he offered it to you?
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| Quote ="Monkey Lover"So Hudgell, who is well know for taking the mickey, said he would be taking advantage of Hull FC and people believe it?
Or was this an Official comment I have missed? If it is I apologise and would start to question if Adam Pearson is drinking too much!'"
You want to get off your high horse before you look even more stupid than you already do
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"That wasn't my point and I don't have a clue what each clubs spends on their academies any more than you do. My point is that the claim was that the clubs aren't doing it to save money which I don't believe.
As for rejecting pearson's advances, I've never met the guy but I presume you'd be in there like a flash if he offered it to you?'"
I have turned him down, twice!!
I have a very good idea what each Academy is spending and I would also say that anyone with a bit of common sense would also realise that when you half your staff, half your players, half your match day travel costs, half your spend on kit and equipment and half your venue hire you end up with around half of your current bill!!
Or are you thinking the new Academy might run two buses still, one for the Hull lads and one for the Rovers lot?
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