Because people care. We bitch and moan because we care about our club.

Interesting theory about the product on the pitch not being 'entertaining'. I'm pretty sure Rovers fans have been royally entertained this year, but look where it's got them?
The club rode on the crest of a wave from moving in to the new stadium, to a relatively successful period from 2003-2007. That dwindled under Agar and the following years have seen a steady flow away from the club of the bandwaggoners (for want of a better word). I think it's finally levelling out and we'll struggle to get those people back until we have another period of doing well!

Utter, utter tripe

, you don't even seem to get it do you!
People moan, stress and complain because they DO care, they care about a club that has probably being in their blood since a kid and have seen how pitiful we've become.
Seriously, did you never go to the pub after the game or listen to fans on the terraces or your dad/mum/aunt/uncle at home after a defeat or even the away coach on the way back...guess what, they/we all complained and whinged and stressed because we were playing carp/losing and it gets worse when you're losing more than we win.

And guess what, more people turn up now during this lean spell than did back in the lean years of the 60s and 70s and the 90s oh and that's in a souless stadium as some people keep banging on about and with many more things and with easier access to other social activities that you can spend your money on.

Frankly given our underachievement compared to where we'd like to be the fans have gone more than above and beyond, we've being extremely loyal given how little we've won/being competing at the top end which is what, maybe 3 seasons if you include the year we won the CC.

AP might be doing the best [ihe[/i can but it really is massively short of what is required, people think he's this manna from heaven because he's put some wedge in, well he isn't. He's shown himself to be a know nowt time and time and time again and a gobe too, he's made so many critical/catastrophic errors that have cost us so badly and shot himself in the foot and yet he blames everyone except himself, a bit like the turnip in charge of the players.

Every penny he has lost is down to him (That includes EBT, pay-offs etc), not the fans, not the players, not even the 'coach'. The buck stops at him and fans are fed up of the way he has gone about things from so many differing angles, failed to control certain aspects of the club, failed to accquire expertise from top to bottom or when we had someone in didn't support them properly and didn't show due diligence
We could bring in a completely new coaching setup (we won't) and that would work better than now but would only work if the current owner wasn't the owner. We need an owner with a proven understanding of not just business (Pearson doesn't IMHO as shown by his constant errors) but also someone that can understand & embrace a community based business as well as nous to employ experts, to leave no stones unturned, even simple things like employing a proven CEO's and actual directors with real world experience not the YTS lot we've had for too long.
But that won't happen, and as Wilf says and something I've being saying for ages is Pearson himself is the problem, he is the root cause of why we are where we are.

Oh I'll go to the next game I'm up visiting the folks, I'll always go, however, I don't go to as many games as I used to, it's not the money, it's the awful feeling it gives you (losing/playing shat) for days sometimes weeks after an utterly dreadful performance/defeat. That's how it's been for a while anticipating the worst, rarely thinking we'll turn up with a great performance rather than upbeat, that's me personally but I hear it on the terraces too.

As others it's in my blood and watching that kind of rubbish hurts, it's the complete opposite end of the scale emotion wise, I'm sure many would agree.
Why would you want to waste an afternoon/evening and 'waste' the cash (not just for those that it's a struggle which I appreciate it can be) but also to have that horrible feeling afterwards...

Thank you for starting what is an excellent thread containing a lot of heartfelt and well written posts.

My own assessment of the situation is that AP enjoyed what was a modicum of success in his first spell at city (though it could be argued that it was through trial and error). The cash made from that was largely Peter Wilkinson's, and AP saw Hull FC as a chance to repeat the trick but with himself as the sole beneficiary.

Unfortunately for him he didn't do enough due diligence into what was needed to succeed in RL, and as a consequence overpaid for the club and had been playing catch-up ever since.

As you allude to he's wasted hundreds of thousands on big names and other such luxuries, when he would have been better spending it on solid foundations the club could have been built on for the next 10 years.

Always good at talking, he's wasted a long honeymoon period by consistently over promising and under delivering and now faces the fact that all his spending has brought little if any improvement from when he bought the club.

I agree totally that we will now be chasing the crowds down, lower investment=poorer performances=lower crowds=lower investment etc etc.

I think the watershed moment for you was the Leeds Cup game wasn't it? I recall you said it was "sobering stuff".

Where do we go from here, who knows. I disagree with the school of thought that says we need a rich benefactor though. What we need is someone to take on the club who knows the game and has contacts that can deliver value for money. A coach who can take some rough diamonds and make them into a glittering necklace.

Anyone know somebody who fits the bill?

This ^^

Rugby league is entertainment at the end of he day and our club has become stale. The same old annual merry go round of average signings, promises in the media and inconsistent performances. I've said all I want to say about Radford these last 18 months.

It also doesn't help the club that our home form has been so poor and host in many of the big games (Derby at Easter, Leeds in the cup, Wigan last week) the team doesn't turn up, which means the less regular fans who turn out for these games (or watch them on TV) aren't persuaded to turn up more regularly.

After 20 years as a passholder I'm pretty much done with the club, planning on picking and choosing my games next year dependant on the teams form. There's only so long you can keep coughing up for underachieving rubbish. The other problem the club has is the size of the ground and the drop in pass holders means you can easily get a decent seat by paying on the day, even a few years ago you'd have got nowhere near an East stand seat on the halfway line, now it's sp.

The only way to improve pass sales next year is to appoint a proven, respected head coach. It's not rocket science!

I'll tell you why we moan, its because we actually care and love our club. Pearson, Radford, Ellis, Pryce I could go on, will be long gone soon. In the same way Boxall, Hancock, Bunting, Lloyd Leuluai etc have long gone. But who have stayed loyal thorugh some pretty dross times. Us the fans. Us the fans who put our hard earned cash into the coffers of the club. Us the fans who have family diaries dictated by a fixture list so that we can follow the club. Us the fans who love the club and are completely dedicated to it. When its clearly not going well and nobody at the club can see it and when we are told that unless we turn up at Widnes on a Thursday night we can't have a say, thats when we get the right royal ar54.

I don't know how long you have supported the club and frankly I don't really care. But for some of us it aint so easy to say sod it I'm off without so much as a word after all this time supporting the club.

If AP and LR are doing the best they can and all we are doing is standing still at best then maybe they need to man up and either get some outside help or ship out. (Look to Castleford for a club in a far worse situation than us and yet they may well make the top 4. what do they do so differently to the "big" club that is Hull FC?) What they are doing now does not appear to be working. AP went on about our u16s when he took over. The next great crop of youngsters apparently. Yet we seem more intent on shipping some of them out and getting overseas players in. We are merging with the enemy because of cost cutting pure and simple. An exercise which will see further cuts as the funding stream from the fans upset with that will dry up. Wilf being a classic example. a man who regularly goes to watch the academy and goes the extra mile putting his hand in his pocket. That will stop from him and many others.

These are a few of many things that frankly p155 off too many fans now. And if they want to express their opinion on that then so be it. The fans that don't turn up now HAVE to be listened to. The reasons why the don't turn up HAVE to be listened to. If they don't get listened to then many more will drift away and we will be back to the championship and days in Batley, Oxford, London, Gateshead.

I have been supporting Fc since 1958 over them years we have had some highs and some downright lows that goes for every RL fan. I agree with Wilf that I go to games home and away with no idea how we will perform the Wakey game was a prime example,should have gone there thinking yes a win is certain but no on the way down thinking we could lose here ..and we all know what happened ,After their first try I though here we go and sadly we folded.I honestly dont think a change in coach or owner will make any difference but if it did then I would be the first to say lets do it,however i think the criticism aimed at Pearson is bang out of order.Allam knew nothing about football and he relied on others knowledge ,Pearson put the same trust in others and it cost him dearly with some pretty awful contracts and signings and whatever you think that has caused us real damage. I want to see a better club but I will never walk away its in my blood ,am i frustrated and down ..to right I am but i live in hope .

An interesting thread..

I feel that the majority of FC fans/supporters and followers have lost confidence with the Head Coach, and Pearson's decision making.

Pearson feels, the signings of a high profile player, will be a major season ticket seller, but in my opinion the acquisition of a Head Coach of the stature of a Powell or even Brian Smith, would galvanize the club further., it would give fans confidence again.

As it stands, IF Pearson continues with the current coaching setup, pass sales will dwindle, but IF ,a big IF.. he gambled on a proven Head Coach, people may return ,if the performances were consistent.

People just need to look at Wakey and the change in expectation since BS arrived. I would hazard a guess that their fans are more confident of their future than we are of ours. There needs to be change and it needs to happen quickly or the fans who are not turning up now will never turn up again.

Totally agree...

Pearson doesnt understand, nor realise, the importance of a Head Coach.

It would be interesting to hear the fans opinions, regarding..

Who would improve Hull FC as a club more..?

A high profile player, or a proven Head Coach ????

Problem is with Adam Pearson, he doesnt listen to fans advice, many have emailed him, and I recall there was a FC fans group, who tried to offer advice, but fell on deaf ears..

I am not wanting to go over ground already covered but as a 3rd generation hull fan who now takes his own children and used to have a great uncle who represented our club with great distinction I believe that I and others like me do have a right to voice our opinions and no less a right simply because I no longer buy a pass.
This season for the first time in years I have become a pay as you go customer and not a very occasional one at that. Both my children now refuse to accompany me to games when I go as they claim it is now boring and who am I to disagree as I am now equally disillusioned.
I firmly believe the current failings of this club are due to Pearson and Radford and no blame can be apportioned to any fan regardless.
Pearson through dialogue with him and through the media in my opinion is a very arrogant and stubborn man who should look at himself first and foremost and ask "what can I do differently to change the club?" Instead of laying the blame at those non attending fans for our financial demise, those very same fans the club need yet he chooses to ignore.
And as for Radford a man clearly out if his depth at this level of coaching a man ultimately responsible for taking the level of performances below what I thought possible in the fact he makes Agar look good, is also responsible for driving away fans in their droves. He also alienates players and fans alike with his ill thought out interviews which does not help our cause.
It has got so bad for me that I now resent a man I do not know simply because of how bad we are and how he has now made me feel as a supporter.
So now no longer will I blindly give cash to this club to an owner who no longer deserves it and for a coach to be employed who's ability I do not respect or value.
For me it is no longer about big name signings as they won't win me over as they'll become expensive parts in a badly run machine but a proven coach or one with pedigree and potential would.

Their highest average home SL attendance in 4 years, when the game in general is seeing a decline? And this despite their lowest points return, lowest league finish, lowest number of wins, and lowest number of points scored since their first season back. A comparative success, really, and if anything only adds to the argument that people will still go if they are being entertained.

How is it? He's made mistakes, simple as that. As long as it's not personal or nasty, criticism of that is entirely fair.

If you buy a business in a field you know nothing about, listen to the wrong people and make bad decisions, that's your fault. End of story. It doesn't matter how well intentioned you were/are, the ultimate responsibility for how the business performs is yours and yours alone. What we've effectively had here is not unlike Mr & Mrs Smith the lifelong electrician and sales rep who have decided to fulfil their dream and move to Majorca to open a restaurant having never cooked outside of their own kitchen, never working in the trade or tourism and being unable to speak Spanish between them. Gordon Ramsay would be knocking on the door to swear at and ridicule them.

Nail on the head. Whilst better players will obviously make some improvement, I think the big concern is that no matter who it is it won't make enough difference until the deeper problems are addressed.

The point being that I'm sure Rovers fans would rather be in our position than theirs.

they have more chance of winning games, but the spectre of possible relegation, whilst unlikely, remains.

Well if so it seems they have a different outlook to Hudge.

I thought this thread and the points being made were about our medium term approach, declining crowds/revenue and the cost-cutting, not on-field success. In that respect (providing they stay up, which they should), they are arguably on a relatively upward trajectory compared to the last few years, we seem to be on a downward spiral.

Not for one minute saying that I'd rather be in their position in the league table, but they have improved crowds despite having worse results and a cup run to pay for, so it does show that people will turn up to be entertained. We on the other hand, seem to be giving up on improving gates and resigning ourselves to existing on a low budget. I think we've got that wrong, personally, and if we give up on getting the fans back as quickly as possible, it only gets progressively harder to convince them to return.

How great it is to see a thread like this full of people who really care, worried about their Club and trying to make sense of it all. While that is the case, I think that there is always a modicum of hope left. We are just ordinary fans trying to understand it all really.

The analogy with Castleford is interesting, they play in a tin pot ground (which I love) have little money, are an unfashionable Club who have never claimed to be 'Big' and yet their fans are compared with ours so positive and up for it, simply because somehow somewhere their Board and their Coach consistently give them grounds for hope for the present and the future. Anyone who has witnessed the Sweet Caroline moment will know exactly what I mean. When I saw it unfold around the ground and the faces of everyone who stayed to the end to be part of it I really envied those Cas fans.

The fact remains that a team that is trying and that plays some attractive rugby with a consistent level of spirit will inspire people, the gates will start to come back and thus the money role in. All we all need is a bit of HOPE. But we are totally devoid of any at present. We persist with our lot but the coaches can do nothing about getting their heads right, while on the terraces all the younger, less committed and perhaps less dyed in the wool fans drift away disillusioned and skint, so that now we are just left with us lot the compulsives, the fanatics and the old stagers who are so steeped in history and the culture, we turn up whatever we are given to watch.

Then as if to find something to p*ss them off too, we decide to do the one thing that their dedication and lifelong love for the club will not countenance and merge our youngsters, (one of the only flickering lights left in an ever darkening picture), with Rovers, which for many now is the final straw. You really couldn’t make it up could you? We have got miles away from any sort of hope out on the field to retain the casual supporter and have now started to jettison the rest by getting into bed with a Club they and their families have seen for generations as the mortal enemy. I have listened to the arguments and there are certainly some points to commend the move, I can see that, but it has been handled badly, not explained properly and foisted on us all almost overnight so that now people will simply not countenance the idea and more irreparable damage has been done.

Somehow, I think myself that as a Club we need to adopt a Wheldon Road type siege mentality, develop some honesty and make some tough decisions towards giving the supporters some hope again. Not persist with (as I'll be honest I did) celebrating mediocrity (a place in the top eight which we were very fortuitous to get), relying on a few big names to get the interest back while all the time appearing to be selling off the family silver to our evil uncle across the river. When it comes to the point when dozens if not hundreds of people like me, who have had a season ticket for donkeys years are considering 'that enough' its a blooming worry but really heartening to see how many others care too.

So on field success isn't an important part of this? Entertaining rugby is all fine and dandy, but people will come to watch winning rugby. We weren't particularly entertaining in 2010/11/12 but still had impressive attendances.



Again, i'm not sure i'd be happy with watching the likes of Halifax and Sheffield in the name of entertainment.

Many of our financial difficulties can be laid at Pearson's door. He paid too much for the club and didn't do his due diligence properly e.g. the EBT liability.

He appointed McRae and followed his advice resulting in average players being signed on lucrative contracts. When he saw through McRae he then decided to pay off those players before their contracts were up.

Pearson's personality is mercurial, even capricious. He speaks without thinking and makes decisions in haste.

He then sacked Gentle a year too early and gave his inexperienced and unproven assistant a 3 year contract. Radford is a genuine, honest, hardworking guy but he's just not up to it. I honestly believe the reason Radford hasn't been sacked is because Pearson can't afford to pay him off.

He bought the club believing he would make money out of it but has had to pump in more and more and I think he has now run out of money. I think he planned to sell it for a profit in about 5 years but now he couldn't give it away.

Other problems are not down to him. He bought the club as we were entering the biggest recession for generations and falling attendances can partly be attributed to the effects of this recession on an economically deprived, low wage area.

He also made a mistake by promising too much too soon. He should have under-promised and over-delivered. Instead of saying we would be a force in the game within 3 years or so he should have told us what a state the club was in due to years of under-investment and that it would be a long job to turn it around.

So in summary I believe our problems are down to the actions of the previous regime, Pearson's poor judgment and reliance on those he appointed to advise him and the state of the economy.

I will accept any criticism of the fans who have put their hands in their pockets year on year and have very right to criticise. If we have unrealistic expectations that is entirely the fault of the owner and the club's PR machine.

So where do we go from here? I think whatever happens in the next two months pass sales will be down. If we do really badly in the Super 8's then they will be very seriously down. Signing players won't change that. The only thing which might would be to appoint an experienced, proven, top class coach but I don't think that will happen. Next season will be another battle to scrape into the top 8.

I know we have had our differences in the past Seb, however this is a classic chicken and egg scenario.

Fans don't attend due to poor performances. Poor performances are down to inadequate players / coaching. Difficult to change playing staff in the short term without plenty of money. Money not coming through as fans are not showing.

With dwindling resources its either going to take a miracle set of events (6 academy players are ready for the start of next season and can play like Callum Watkins / jow Burgess etc) or someone which a serious wedge who is prepared to lose a fair bit until it comes good.

That someone with a bit of coin was Adam Pearson, but its hasn't worked out. I don't quite subscribe with the notion there has been false promises, its the nature of the sports industry to big up the prospects of a club. Of course there have been mistakes, EVERY club at some point makes mistakes. But when your are without a core structure, both in the team and the set up (which the likes of Wigan, St's and Leeds already had) then every mistake is felt that much harder.

For me, in retrospect, Pearsons biggest error was the appointment of Shaun Mcrae, who it appeared squandered money left right and centre. But this is retrospective. At the time, it was not an unreasonable appointment. Former head coach, knew the set up inside out, had good contacts within the UK and AUS game.

I don't profess to know the answers, but I think the club was at a much lower ebb than any of us really knew when Pearson took over. You say Pearson is clueless, but his strategy of investing into the academy set up to get a supply line of players had to be the way forward after KH left it in such a mess. Thats not clueless, thats long term planning. I actually admire that fact he has stood by his coach and tried to show some sort of loyalty to Radford. Please don't read this that I am an advocate of Radford, I am not. I feel he should have gone at Easter.

I think we will have a new coach for next season and that Radford will still be part of the set up. Pearson is not stupid and is a business man. He should know by now that season pass sales will fall, significantly and hence hit him in the pocket. Only a change of coach will prevent this, IMO. But then we have come full circle, money is down, lack of investment, poor performances.

There is that Chicken and egg again.

Staying away is anyone's prerogative. Staying away but still moaning about it is futile. Turning up and moaning about it it probably the best form of protest.