From reading this week's diary, it sounds like the club giving up on achieving 12k crowds has driven the decision to cut cloth and merge the academy. I understand the requirement to balance the books but I reckon there's a scenario here that will limit salary cap spend in anticipation of reduced crowds and consign us to middle 8 before a ball is kicked next year. Wonder whether signing Tuimavave rather than some bigger names bandied about is further evidence? If this were true, it would be the case that we've gone as far as we'll go under AP and with no alternative things look pretty bleak; our chances of genuinely challenging the Top 3 (lucky cup run apart) are minimal.

Four years on and we're almost back to square one (with lower attendances), the exception being the academy, the future benefits of which we're now choosing to dilute. When you look back at all the cash spent by AP on tax liabilities, EBTs, paying off contracts and agents fees you can't help but wonder how this could have been put to better use over that time period to build something with solid foundations. Club's at a crossroads this off season IMO and the only direction of travel seems to be downgrading/downsizing. Sobering stuff.

Anti-Radford vitriol has been done to death and beyond - purpose of this thread is what others views are of the club's medium term plan and direction on all fronts.

I doubt we'd have signed pritchard and taylor if we were limiting the cap spend. pearson made reference to spending £1.9m on salaries if my memory serves me so whilst there may be cost cutting going on it's not on the 1st team squad currently. If he wants to start spending less then that's up to him but he'll end up with us in championship 2 playing in front of 3000

One main problem weve had since Pearson took over is Pearson. The guys clueless. Whatever he knew from previous business or football has either not worked or he has made lots and lots of wrong decisions. The worst of all is our current coaching set up but he just doesnt get it. I would honestly rather have Kath and co back which was only really bad in the latter and Agar part of her tenure. Now weve got loads of fans deserting the club, a partial merger and with the coming season, stand closures, possible middle eights next season, less fans......etc etc etc.

The simple fact is the clubs fooked, is showing no signs of turning it around and lots and lots are seeing this and are deserting. I said on a previous thread that id take relegation and all that entails if it meant us getting rid of Pearson, starting again properly and being a club of the people again and id support it just like i did when it was the championship a few years back. Despite the way people slag Rovers they are still a fans club, a club were people feel part of it even if they are poor on the field atm and we could learn certain things from them

If we had Kath etc, we would be in the same position as Bradford and Wakey, without Pearson we might not have a club.

Can't blame Pearson for not wanting to spend anymore money and to make cut backs. My big hope is the current under 19s and if we can get our recruitment right for next year (is looking pretty good so far) then we can progress next year and get some fans back.

I'll probably regret this post but in my opinion in answer to the initial poster I think that the Club are just trying to be realistic really, the cash just isn't coming in and it doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon. Pearson is forking out week in week out while income must obviously be going down on a weekly basis too.

Adam Pearson said on Humberside that the merger is in his opinion good for youth development but went on to say when pressed that it is in some part to save money and added that if we don't buy season tickets and start attending games again it will be down to 'passing the buckets round' which I think is an incite into what they are thinking and how strapped for cash we are.

However for me they don't seem to get it because we have got things the wrong way round. The issue with everything to do with a professional sports Club is geared to how much the team inspires the fans and captures their imagination. That puts bums on seats and sells the shirts. That's why in other sports coaches get sacked and players have to move on.

I think myself that playing well, looking good and offering some HOPE is what brings people back but bumping along in mid to lower table as we do year in year out just sees people getting fed up with the same old and walking away. Where we are at this moment after two good wins and then a very, very poor display against a top team is a place we have been in time and again for years and years and its bloody soul destroying.

I'm not getting into coach or player bashing but the thing that is radically wrong is the product it's that which gives people some hope and at present ts that which is driving people away. There seems to be no improvement at all in that same old culture and mental approach, well there is little evidence in this seasons results that much is changing is there?

That trend has to be reversed and action to do that however unpalatable or costly in the short term has to be taken. To simply look at ways of making savings is a downward spiral and we have to give the fans that hope again that one day we will be a top Club again. However unlikely that aspiration is. Blind faith wares very thin after time.

That is the only thing that will make them start to come back to games and subscribe to season tickets. We had 20,000 at Wembley two years ago so there are potentially some 12,000 out there who are interested enough to travel down to London to watch the FC, we simply have to produce the product to get some of those back to games. However if they were sat at home on Thursday watching Sky then its going to be a long haul but that's the fault of the quality of the product rather than anything else at the Club. Why should they shell out over £20 to watch that? Just my view of course, we're all entitled to them.

The club is in the entertainment business and since radford took over we've been a long way from entertaining for the most part. Our home form has been terrible this season and there is no wonder people are staying away. radford was a hard working, honest pro and he's trying to build a team in that mould. It won't bring back the missing fans I'm afraid and I can see another slide in pass sales for next year

The most annoying thing for me is the fans on twitter, Facebook and on here who moan about the club , the coach and the merger but don't attend and give the club the money that they need to compete with the likes of Leeds. I have no problem with the true fans like Jake, Mrs B and Wilf have a good old moan, but those who don't go or don't give the club money don't deserve this right.

The game itself has gone stale, 10-15 years ago it was all relatively new, summer rugby nice shirts decent grounds, marketing was good, fireworks, mascots, big signings were over here, people just don't want or can't afford to shell out ex-amounts of money to go watch something that doesn't entertain them no more. I love the club & the game it's my addiction. So have no choice.

The club can't keep Issuing veiled threats to get people to buy season tickets
That was trotted out last year. Many people responded and gave the club another season, but the emotional blackmail won't work again
Our club has had superb support, bearing in mind how very average we've been for a long time.
What crowds would Wire , Saints, Wigan and Leeds get if they'd put up with years of tut like we have?
Let's be honest, in the main the product on offer this season has been poor most weeks. People have finally has enough I feel this year. The academy merger will be the final straw for many. "In any kind of weather" only goes so far when people are struggling financially and many make sacrifices to attend games.
AP was badly advised in the beginning of his tenure, and that's cost the club hundreds of thousands of pounds. Thats APs fault, not the supporters.
I don't think I've ever felt so ambivalent towards my club and the game in general

If you can afford it you go it really is that simple, some people over scrutinise things on here, if your a die hard & have the finances you turn up, albeit it gets you mad from time to time, but it's in your blood from a young age.

but loyalty only goes so far in sport. you have to have entertainment too. a team struggling in mid to lower table playing boring rugby will never bring in a lot of support. there are few teams in sport who fill their grounds consistently whilst offering up poor fare on the pitch. even newcastle united fans, some of the most loyal in their game were getting fed up last season.

its all too obvious that our crowds won't improve unless changes are made either to the ownership or coaching. too many people have made their minds up. there's many other forms of entertainment out there, especially in the summer months to compete with. until then the club will lose money or be forced to budget accordingly.

but there is hope. look at Cas punching well above their weight with some excellent players and attractive rugby, despite a much smaller fanbase than ours. trouble is it took a change of coach to spark them into life

AP knows that if the product is no good the fans will not buy tickets. Yes the future has to be secured and plans put in place to be able to produce players etc but there's no point in that if the current malaise continues , the future will be in the Championship. You have to conclude therefore that AP believes that Radford and co are buying the right players and will deliver. Certainly he will be spending to the cap next year or so it seems. Why he believes that I don't know but he has "got previous" in listening to advisers , taking their views as gospel before suddenly binning it off and following the next guru just as avidly. We all thought that Gentle and Macrae was a dream team , why did they suddenly become almost criminally intent on ripping AP and the Club off? Or did they? If not who persuaded AP that they were? Why did he suddenly form this idea of having an utterly inexperienced coaching team in place , all of whom had come through the club with the playing staff. And now Hudge has persuaded him that merging the academy is a good idea. For an experienced and successful business man he seems bizarrely suggestible but can that really be the case? There's a piece of the jigsaw missing which may if found explain more rationally why AP is doing what he's doing which seems to be making the best of a poor job or cutting his cloth as the op says.

I was a season ticket holder for 10 years until this season. I bought several shirts and other merchandise, and I started the season as a weekly attendee. That's pretty much all stopped now, does that mean I've forfeited my right to be unhappy about the club and voice this opinion? If so, why? Have I not paid enough dues to be a bit ticked off?

Totally agree about the club not seeming to get it and having things the wrong way around. Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I get a sense that what is doing for a lot of fans is simply the loss of hope. I have zero belief that things will get much better any time soon, and I do know that there are others like me. I wish that the club would try and re-engage with us and understand why we don't want to go any more, instead of just announcing another signing as if it will be a magic tonic or making veiled threats about the end of the club to bully us into buying tickets. I've never felt less like a fan and more like a consumer whose opinions don't count, only the colour of my money.

In s nutshell, it doesn't feel like my club any more, and that's what's killing it for me personally.

In the same interview he said that we had to start winning to bring the fans back, so I think he does 'get it'. He just has an odd idea about how to go about achieving that.

I hear this constantly from you Dave and i know who your directing it at.







The thing is like me there are thousands of FANS who still support Hull FC, still buy merchandise, still watch games on sky BUT are are no longer attending games because of years of bull performance, mis-management, , false promises, abject failure and cost. We all still take an interest in he club but are dismayed by the whole place and everytime we think were turning a corner and want to get back on the bike a Wigan last weeks performance arises.....or Wakefield away, Or Leeds at home, or Rovers at home going further back this season and then you think whoooaaa what was i thinking, i aint wasting a £100 on that.

And what would you say was the minimum amount of money someone has to spend before you magnanimously grant them the right to have an opinion?

Deary me.

Not any more
There's far more competition for people's money now.
The clubs in the entertainment industry and are charging top dollar to attend games
People will certainly be picking and choosing even more next season.

Then it's simple don't go, why stress yourself out moaning & complaining till your blue in the face, I'm not just on about you but any person that's not happy & doesn't enjoy the game/club no more, we never had these boards to post on 20 years plus ago, so what did we do then? We got on with it & turned up, AP is doing the best he can, we could have a complete new team/coaching staff there's nothing to say it would 100% change.

I agree there's a game-wide problem. I actually think the sport is dying in this country. I think we could have held onto crowds better than most if our fan base wasn't so disillusioned, though.

It's the case of if you do something that much it becomes stale & bores you, we do massively over scrutinise every move the club or players or staff do, it's like out of people moan/knock you start to believe it yourself.

I used to go to the games every week (180 mile round trip) until a year or so ago, then we started picking and choosing games...and this year I've mainly stuck to Sky and been to about 5 games I think...for me the excitement has completely gone. I used to be excited all week about the upcoming game and used to be proud to talk about supporting Hull...now I can't seem to get excited if we win and I'm not too fussed if we lose...apart from the embarrassment in front of my friends if it's a sky game!

For me, the ambition has gone from both the fans and the club. Recruitment wise, we seem to go for either average unknowns e.g Michaels, Talanoa, Rankin, Tumivave (could turn out to be good, but I'll admit I dont know anything of him), Byrne, Cusack, Maiava etc etc or marquee players / ageing players that are available at the right time..e.g Pryce, Long, Berrigan, Sing and Ellis to an extent. We seem to sign players based on the fact that they're available and trying to make them fit in the team, rather than planning a signing out. Compare our recruitment to Leeds, Wigan and Saints and think how few signings they make, but how well planned they are, e.g Cuthbertson, Galloway...as they know they're going to lose Peacock and Leuluai at the end of the season and so plan accordingly. We sign Tumivave and people don't know whether he will be a stand-off, winger or centre...and I'm not sure the club 100% do either! Once we sign these players, Hull fans being the proud bunch they are will defend each of the signings and say that they add something to the team, if half of our squad played for any other team....we wouldn't rate them as highly as we do.

I struggle to motivate myself to go to games, and when I do I've found them boring sadly...gone are the exciting days from 2003 - 2007 where we had the likes of Barnett, Swain, Best, Kearney, Blacklock etc, even Jamie Thackray, Carvell, Dowes and King used to really run at the line with power and take large run-ups, compare that now to a lot of our players who, whilst they graft and tackle...have lost the excitement factor, which is reflected in the declining attendances and cheering from the crowds.

Rugby league isn't cheap anymore, £23 to watch the game, along with £20 petrol, food and drinks, adds up to around £60 a time...which as people have said is a lot of money each week to go and be bored.

I would like to have the same level of interest as I did a few years ago, but with the pattern of two or three wins followed by two or three losses, endless spin from the club and constantly focusing on "next year" rather than focusing on now, I am finding it difficult to maintain my interest in Hull FC, and can't see it changing anytime soon. Feel free to call me not a true fan but they're just my feelings of the current situation!

Sorry, I've read that 3 times and I'm still not sure what you're saying & getting at.

Just needs re marketing from our clubs perspective to keep the ready to walk away fans to stay, our fans over scrutinise every thing that goes on, even the good things the club are trying to do, & if people call something constantly well others start to jump onboard.

You think people are walking away because the club is not marketed in the right way and other fans over-scrutinise and criticise, is that it?

If so, then I'm afraid I think you're way off. I think you'd be better off thinking about why people feel the need to call things, it's not like they're doing so unjustly and people are jumping on board blindly. There's been a growing unrest that has been fed for several years by poor results, poor performances, false promises of change, and a feeling of being taken for granted by those in charge.

As for the good things about the club, what is currently the single best thing about Hull FC at the moment, the one thing that is showing some degree of success? The 19s side from an academy that is now going to be restructured to be cheaper. The same 19s side that Pearson has been banging on about since it was 15-year-olds playing 16s at the start of his tenure. This 'special crop' as he put it, that was to be nurtured and show the way the future of the club lay, will now be the last Hull FC under 19s side, because it's too expensive and he appears to have shifted his ideology from being about youth to preferring to bring in a big name or 2 from the NRL.