One penalty a game, on average isn't good and I'd agree that he needs to improve that.
Errors I don't pay that much attention to, as it completely depends on what kind of errors, really. He probably committed four of his errors against Rovers playing out of position, and two of those the Rovers player had a hand in while he was affecting the pass (yet more Ganson missed). Also, he's used on the end of a flat crash pass quite often, which I think are the hardest to take.

I don't know why people have this negative attitude towards Westerman, (Not you in particular) he's been consistently our best forward this year, yet gets little or no recognition for it.

Why Nicklas?

M. Paea, Fakir, Flanagan & Hanbury.

Job done, because obviously it's as easy as that.

Heremaia isn't OOC.

Not been impressed with him from what I saw last year. Maybe worth keeping as cover but on saying that he doesn't seem to be in Gentle's thoughts this year even though we have problems in the halves so is there much point in keeping him if we're not going to use him?

Move over Shaun McRae there's a new DOR in town



Heremaia's third year is optional isn't it?

Isn't he injured?

Should we go for Beharrell ,as a backup 7? Lulia is a good centre - apart from Paea, there isnt a lot of props available.

Elbow injury I believe.

I was under the impression he'd been a regular for York so far this season?

When Nicklas has been in the first team, he's been rubbish. When I've seen him for what was the u20's, he's been rubbish.

He's rubbish, get rid.

Stop sitting on the fence, what's your opinion of him??



I would like us to get Paea - but he doesnt play long enough for me - even Moa was sometimes capable of longer stints when needed, which I haven't seen Micky do

Moa has started every game for the roosters so far this season ,and has put in some big minutes on the pitch.Dosent manage to break the line very much though,which he did regularly for us.

According to their rosta stats an interview I read he's dropped almost 10 kg, probably explains the minutes and impact thing.

And the defences are slightly better?

No Westy bashing here but I say it as I see it as I'm sure you do too. I think Lynch has been better than Westy albeit in a different position and Whiting as well who is asked to do all sorts of things outside of being a second rower. As I say I like Joe's spirit and I'll applaud the good stuff he does but he needs to cut the errors and penalties. Recognition comes from making the difference in games and I don't believe it's a mistaken lack of recognition with him that you imply. If he was our best forward he would get the plaudits and be talked about as a top player who influences games. At the moment he hasn't reached that level. He's not the only one and I don't pick on him - I already commented on two other forwards in the derby who were way below standard and worse than Westy in all departments. If he wants to make the step up to top level he has areas of his game that need significant improvement but his spirit is admirable.

Whiting has not been a patch on Westerman over the course of this season so far.

I disagree.

Westerman is ahead in just about every stat, although he has also made more errors and given away more penalties.

Evidently. I don't think it's even close. Westerman has had 1, maybe 2 bad games. Whiting has had 3 or 4 and a couple of average ones. A few comparison stats:

Westerman has made just short of 45% more tackles than Whiting, around 30% more per game.
His tackle completion rate is also higher.
Westerman has made 75% more metres than Whiting, around 58% more per game, around half a metre more per carry.
It's currently 3 to 1 in both tries and assists to Westerman.

The only areas in which Whiting has been better are clean breaks (by 1), his discipline and errors. I completely agree that Westerman needs to improve with these latter 2, but I really don't think they are bad enough to say that Whiting has been better this season. I'm a big fan of Whiting, but this year he has been comprehensively outplayed in almost every other facet of the game by Westerman, derby excluded.

Exactly.

I have no idea why Westerman isn't apparently considered as someone who influences games. He's got more assists than anyone in our squad apart from halfbacks, more tackles than anyone except Houghton, is in our top 3 'proper' forwards for metres, and joint 4th leading tryscorer. How many more ways does he need to influence proceedings other than making tackles, making ground, and making and scoring tries?

Spot on. Westerman and Horne have been our two best players this season. I honestly don't think it matters what Westerman does, he'll never be rated here. Not a huge love of stats but they show Westy in a good light this season. He plays with a lot of spirit and seems to have a new and improved attitude last season and this, maybe PG has placed more responsibility on him?

Either way if we are looking at why we are not performing Westy isn't one of those reasons.

I'd add McDonnell up until his injury, too. Totally agree with your second point (presuming you meant NOT).

I submitted too early!! Yeah I would be happy to add Shannon to that list as he's been very good so far.

It is very difficult to understand people's negativity towards him.

Bloke behind me at the derby was mouthing off about him not coming up with enough to justify what we paid for him, and how he doesn't even care because he lives in Cas and he'll be 'back there drinking with his cas mates tonight anyways' and how that means the derby doesn't matter to him anyways.

The worst part, other than the people around us agreeing with him, was that he was shouting all this as Westerman was running good lines with the ball in hand trying to create down our right side and getting shut down by Paterson before he could get the ball away. He was obviously trying to play like a stand off, stepping and dummying through the line and looking for the other players, and it wasn't anything to do with lack effort on his part that meant we weren't coming up with the goods.

Maybe some people just think it was Westerman, and not Cas, that negotiated his transfer fee?