That's what it says on my link!! So for instance, and i may be wrong, but the three combinations;

Lovegrove should then be quota but fed-trained
Mason non-quota but non-fed trained
Dobson quota fed-trained


I think

Does this technically mean then, hypothetically speaking that we could have 14 non english players in our squad?

Quota:
Green
Webster
Dobson
Clinton
Galea

Non-Fed:
Mason
A N Other
A N Other
A N Other
A N Other

Others:
Vella (Fed trained cos of date joined)
Fisher (Fed trained cos of date joined)
Lovegrove (Homegrown)
Newton (Fed trained cos of passport)

or, are vella/newton/fisher classed as Non-Fed trained? :S

Lovegrove counts as home grown mate, cos he was 19 when he joined us. This is one of those special dispensations, similar with Hansen at Wigan.

The SLE website states that clubs can only have 5 [ioverseas trained[/i (non fed) players in their 25 man squad.

[url=http://www.superleague.co.uk/page.php?id=346Linky.[/url (bottom of page)

The new 'clarification' has effectively doubled that number.

That's what i mean tho, Homegrown as in fed-trained but quota as he is australian..

The RFL responded to my initial question posted on here earlier with a formulaic response including a series of FAQ's but still stating that nothing had changed. I followed it up with this:-

"Thanks for the reply.
So this does mean that any Cotonou country player with the appropriate passport currently playing for a Superleague team will with immediate effect no longer be deemed as a quota player. Indeed any such player will be able to play in the ESL as a non quota player. For example Sam Moa and Hame Lauacki for Hull FC , assuming they have Tongan passports , will now be non quota? This then will mean that Hull have 3 quota spots available now and yet only relatively recently they were trying to create more room on the Quota by Berrigan getting a German passport. Hull KR similarly were desperately trying to get Ben Galea off Quota by getting him a Maltese passport in order that they could create room on their Quota. In fact they could have at that time signed any Cotonou player. Why were/are all of the clubs so unaware of this rule and why when , as they must surely have been , when they were asking for exemptions and looking for ways around the rules didn't the RFL tell them that in fact they probably had some room on their quota anyway if they had any South Sea Islanders on their books? Coming back to my question, is this something that everyone was aware of and kept quiet about on the basis of some gentleman's agreement or in fact was it just the case that no one knew of the Cotonou ruling or understood it until HKR did some digging?"

And this is their very definitive , prompt and clear reply :-

If the players have been in the country since before 2008 then they are required to apply to the RFL for a special dispensation – extenuating circumstances basically as they came here to play before the Federation rules were put in place.
The Federation rule has been in effect since 2008 and any players hwo have come to teh league in that time have been subject to the rules and clubs have had to abide by them.
The clubs have all been aware of this rule since 2008 when the Federation trained rule came into force.
The Quota rule has been in place for 20 odd years.
[uIt appears to be a case that until Willie Mason’s arrival, clubs themselves were not fully aware of how the rulings operated.[/u
Regards

How do, don't know if already posted but had this forwarded to me this afternoon from a mate who'd emailed the RFL. Hope it makes some sense



Below are a series of FAQ’s designed to explain queries regarding the Quota and Federation rulings.

1 – What is the Quota rule?

- The overseas Quota is a limit on the number of players RFL member clubs can register who do not have a right to work in the UK (generally speaking on account of not holding a current European Union member country passport).

- Currently, Super League clubs are permitted five Quota players, one for Championship clubs and two for Championship One clubs.



2 – Is it only European Union passport holders who are ‘off-Quota’?

- No. The EU has signed various trade and association agreements promoting, amongst other things, free trade between the EU states and signatory nation(s)

- Of particular relevance to Rugby League is the ‘Cotonou Agreement’ signed with the ‘African, Caribbean and Pacific Group of States’ in June 2000.

- Signatories to the Cotonou agreement included various Pacific Island states such as Cook Islands, Fiji, Papua New Guinea, Samoa and Tonga.



3 – What does that mean?

- Cotonou country passport holders are, as a consequence of the European Court of Justice’s 2003 ‘Kolpak’ ruling, given free movement to work within the European Union (and therefore the UK).

- The Kolpak judgment declared that citizens of countries that have signed agreements with the European Union, have the same right to freedom of work and movement within the EU as EU citizens (subject to any visa restrictions)

- Thus any restrictions placed on their right to work (such as quotas setting maximum numbers of such foreign players in sports teams) are not compatible with EU law.



4 – How does that impact on Rugby League?

- In short, as a result of the Cotonou agreement and Kolpak judgment, players who hold a current passport for a country such as the Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga, etc (or an EU country such as France, Malta etc) cannot count as Quota players.



5 – What are the RFL’s ‘Club Trained’ rules

- The Club Trained rule only applies to Super League clubs and was first implemented for the 2008 season.

- Clubs are required to have a minimum number of such players (defined as those developed by the club at some point between ages 16-21) in their first team squad.

- The ‘Club Trained’ rules are separate to the Quota rules and were designed to encourage the development of ‘home grown’ (‘Club Trained’) players.

- In encouraging the development of ‘home grown’ players, the ‘Club Trained’ rules include a limit on the number of ‘Non Federation Trained’ players within a club’s first team squad.



6 – What is a ‘Non Federation Trained’ player?

- In simplified terms, a ‘Non Federation Trained’ player is one who was not playing for a club within the Rugby League European Federation between age 16-21.

- Clubs are limited to five ‘Non Federation Trained’ players only.



7 – Can there be ‘Non Federation Trained’ exemptions?

- There are a number of current Super League players who would otherwise count as ‘Non Federation Trained’ who have been given ‘Federation Trained’ player status by RFL dispensation.

- Such dispensations have largely been granted on account of the players in question having been playing for an RFL member club (whether in the UK or France) before the rules were introduced.



8 – Do players only count on one list?

- No. The Quota and Club Trained rule systems operate as separate squad requirements.

- Depending on his circumstances, a player might count as both a Quota player and as a ‘Non Federation Trained’ player.

- For example, a player holding a passport from, say, Australia or New Zealand only and whose player development was outside the European Federation (i.e. between ages 16-21) will count as both a Quota player and a ‘Non Federation Trained’ player.

- However, by contrast, if the same player holds a current, say, Samoan passport, he would be classified as ‘off Quota’ but would still count on the club’s ‘Non Federation Trained’ list.



Ultimately, in understanding the separate rules as to overseas players, it is perhaps important to understand that there are two separate lists and that players might count as both Quota and Non Federation Trained players – but some will count on one list but not the other depending on their passport and whether they have been granted Federation Trained status by RFL dispensation.

Just going to post the exact same thing what I got off the RFL this afternoon.

You need to count some players on both seperate lists...


Quota (max of 5): Green, Clinton, Dobson, Webster, Galea.
Non-fed (max of 5): Green, Clinton, Dobson, Mason.



Theoretically, but the circumstances under which you could have 10 are pretty unlikely (without the 2008ers, anyway). You'd need 5 Aussie/Kiwi quota players who [ucame through the academy system here[/u, then your 5 non-quota non-fed islanders or EU-passport holders could be added. The former would be a rare breed you'd imagine. It certainly isn't the 8 club-trained, 12 Tongans, 5 Aussies scenario that was [ipossible[/i pre-2008.

I've just spent the last half hour looking at this, and I think my above post is only partially correct. The 'two list' system will result in only 5 overseas trained players once all the pre-2008 exemption players have retired or moved on.

There are 10 overall 'slots' available but Aussies/NZ/etc take up 2 'slots' each. If you sign 5 Aussies they use up all the slots in both lists. If you sign 5 Tongans they only take up the 5 'slots' in the Non Fed list, but the theoretically available 'slots' in the Quota list are useless unless you can find a player who, for instance, has Aussie nationality but trained in the UK.

So for us...

Quota:
Fitz
Ogre

Non Fed:
Fitz
Ogre
Moa
Lauaki

We have one Non Fed slot open and 3 Quota slots, but we would only be able to use one of the Quota slots on an Aussie as he would also take up our last Non Fed slot.

Rovers have a unique (AFAIK) situation in having two Quota players who don't count as Non Fed as they were here pre-2008. This is what has allowed them to sign Mason as a Non Fed player.

It seems likely that given the complexity of the system and the somewhat misleading information published on it in the past, the clubs themselves were not aware of the details. My guess would be that Rovers, in extremis, went to the RFL with the Mason issue to see if they could get dispensation only to be told that they didn't need it!

Yup - see my post above. Just took me a while to get my head around it!

So from what your saying Kosh we can now sign one Aussie and 2 tongans and still be within the rules ?

No, you can sign one aussie, which would fill one of your 3 quota places, and fill the remaining non-fed place. You could, sign a non-fed player (Tongan, Samoa etc.) but that would restrict you signing anymore overseas.

No we can only sign one Aussie (quota) player who would count on both lists. Or one non fed player (kolpack).

Quota
Fitz
O meley

Non fed
Moa
Hame
Fitz
O meley

Could we not sign 3 Aussies aslong as 2 of them were federation trained?

Yes we could however that is not going to be used very often in my opinion as they would have to be in the academy between the ages of 16-21 and therefore be fed trained, I wouldn't want to waste quota spots on such players unless they were exceptional talents but fed trained quota players will be very rare.

Right so under these new (cleared up) rules;

Do players such as Newton, Vella, Webster and Galea count as Quota but Fed-Trained (under pre 08 rule)
So you'd have Mason as non-quota but non-fed, Dobson, Clinton and Green on both lists.

Logically that's the only way it can work!!

From MR's post above...

Quota (max of 5): Green, Clinton, Dobson, Webster, Galea.
Non-fed (max of 5): Green, Clinton, Dobson, Mason.

so you keep saying. but the question is WHY do webster and galea not count as overseas trained.

Is it because they were already in SL when the quota rules changed and have been reclassified as federation trained like the kolpak player playing in SL were? If so does this mean than all the Overseas quota players who were playing in SL prior to feb 2008 and who are still here (brent webb, glenn morrison etc) are now classed as federation trained until they retire/leave SL?

Quote ="Scott_HKR"Newton (Fed trained cos of passport)'" The self-proclaimed "King of Hull" is exempt due to his royal status. www.code13rugbyleague.com/2011/0 ... my-sights/

Quote ="Scott_HKR"Newton (Fed trained cos of passport)'" The self-proclaimed "King of Hull" is exempt due to his royal status. www.code13rugbyleague.com/2011/0 ... my-sights/

Quote ="Mrs Barista"The self-proclaimed "King of Hull" is exempt due to his royal status. www.code13rugbyleague.com/2011/0 ... my-sights/'" Exempt from the quota but still overseas trained!!!

Quote ="Mrs Barista"The self-proclaimed "King of Hull" is exempt due to his royal status. www.code13rugbyleague.com/2011/0 ... my-sights/'" Exempt from the quota but still overseas trained!!!

Quote ="Mrs Barista"The self-proclaimed "King of Hull" is exempt due to his royal status. www.code13rugbyleague.com/2011/0 ... my-sights/'" More like the Queen of Hull, her majesty fell over

Quote ="Mrs Barista"The self-proclaimed "King of Hull" is exempt due to his royal status. www.code13rugbyleague.com/2011/0 ... my-sights/'" More like the Queen of Hull, her majesty fell over

He was here in 2008, so I am assuming he counts on neither list (along with Vella and Fisher).

Just thought, shouldn't that be "One fell over"?