I wouldn't of imagined your dad as a priest!

This

De ja vue





Is that spelt right

Deja vu

Can't we start a debate on Team Radders, or Team Yeamo..I am bored of this Berro is a very very average player...end of...

Or I could start a debate with you on Hall or Turner as I have noticed I it is an area we appear to disagree in this area.

Team Turner me

If you Hear and see all What the score between Hull v Leeds then

Radders v Dowes
Cusack v Dowes
Washy v Whiting
Turner v Hall
Turner v Washy

Last year there was also
Radders v Tickle
12 players v R Horne
Hall v G Horne

I've lost the will to live.

No, I mean specifically. Like, for example, what does it mean that Berrigan has apparently made 33 marker tackles and Houghton has apparently made 38? Assuming those numbers are accurate (by which I mean I'm not going to bother getting into how a tackle is defined, lets just accept for now that an involvement in a completed tackle, at the point of completion, counts as a tackle) and, for the minute, I'm not even that bothered about the undefinable distinctions in the quality of those tackles, what does it mean that Berrigan has made 5 less than Houghton?

Sir Fitz v Orgre

Hame v Moa

Simpez...Berro=Mr Average

Having looked at that those stats I'm not sure what they show either. I'm no massive Berrigan fan but I'm not seeing how those show Berrigan as being Mr. Average.

And, from what I've read, that's roughly the sum total of your contribution to any debate. Utter vacuousness.

I'm not sure what they show, just thought they were interesting and would input to a debate.

Some people have been saying that Houghton has been poor this season but looking at those stats he isnt far behind Berro. (only stats i know)

I've been saying Berro has been too inconsistent. The stats could support a variety of arguements.

[/u




It is irrelevant what I post or any-one else for that matter, you have your opinion and others have theirs, my opinion is he is indeed a very average hooker and believe me I know all about hookers roles as my brother was one for the mighty HUll FC......plus I am a qualified rugby coach so I have an idea what I am talking/debating about :wink

Oh and you clearly do not read all my posts as I do contribute more, I just have very little to say with regards to Berro

Yep. They could support [iany[/i argument if you tried hard enough. And that's without even bothering to pull apart the definitions of what they are supposed to measure. So I'm not sure why they keep being brought up as though they somehow have some intrinsic value just through existing.




But why not try to engage with other opinions rather than just throwing yours out there, with no support, and expecting it to be accepted? An opinion isn't something that is unchallengeable or something that should even be valued if it has no basis and can't be argued for. Kosh used to have a quote in his signature that put that better, maybe he'll share it if he sees this.

You might be a qualified coach and you might know someone who's played the position under discussion here (although this is more about the statistics and their value than any specific players), but that means nothing. I could mention that I've played hooker at a variety of levels over the past few years, but that also means nothing.

Stats are what they are. They are used in all walks of life to help shape and inform thinking. They never tell the whole story but if you get a decent set of stats they generally give a fair indications of some things. All superleague coaches use stats to help manage their sides and review other sides. All businesses use stats to forecast and measure success. I'm a fan of using stats to give a wider understanding of whats happening on the pitch each game.

But they don't do that because you have no idea of their veracity and they have no context.

The debate around them gives context. Did you not read the bit about helping to inform and shape opinions? The opinions can only be fully formed with appropriate context.

I posted the stats as they would be of interest to some people and a healthy debate could of followed. Guess thats not the case. I was hoping for a 'so why has Berro only got 1 assist' or 'so how has Danny Houghton made almost as many tackles when he's spent nowhere near the same time on the pitch' etc etc

As i said at the start, the stats were not posted to prove or dis-prove anything. You just seem to fear any stats in case they are proven following debate that Berro is poor.

We've noticed.



I know a thing or two about statistics, and the problem I have with the publicly available SL stats is that there are no definitions of the different categories and no information on how they are collected, analysed, and categorised. This makes them essentially worthless IMO.

Even if you were to ignore these major issues and accept the stats posted at face value, they don't really shed any light on which of Berrigan or Houghton is the better player. Because the relative difficulty of each game varies widely depending on the opposition and conditions, and because RL is a team game with aspects of each players performance dependent on the performances of his team-mates, a simple comparison between two players is flawed from the outset.

I've not mentioned them for ages. They just interested me and i thought there might be an intellectual debate in them somewhere, i was wrong.




Yup, unclear methodology and possible inconsistencies etc. Doesnt automatically mean they are worthless though imo. (i work a lot with stats aswell) It can be equally dangerous to discount stats that you dont trust as it can be to trust stats that you maybe shouldnt imo.



I'm not trying to prove anything. Trying to provoke a debate on a chat forum. Failed!

Who need stats to tell them that a guy who has represented queensland and australia 13 times each and won the clive churchill medal is better than danny houghton?

stats are for s

Ah the reputation factor. Robbie Fowler played for England. Does that make him currently better than Marcus Bent? (and i'm not arguing that Houghton is better than Berro)

I agree with the general point, but in this case it's not about trust as such - it's about the fact that none of us has any idea about how these stats are collected or even defined. With such a complete absence of information they are pretty much random numbers.


Which is why I used the phrase 'shed light' rather than 'prove'.

Technically all that proves is that he [ihas been[/i a far better player than Houghton.

I'm sure if robbie fowler were about 10 years younger and still playing at the top level he'd be better than marcus bent.