It is not all of a sudden he did not impress last year either, I agree in Aus he was class, however his performance suggest to me he is here for the paypacket.
The players around him like R.Horne (international), Yeamo (international),Raynor(international) Motu (international) Sing (international) etc
He is slow to play the ball, his kicking is dubious, I personally believe the best aspect of his game is defence, however he hardly manages a full game, I believe Houghton speeds up the game when he comes on, plus he offers more from the scoot.

I agree to a point but it is Berrigan who should be leading the side together with our other internationals. He has a responsibility as a senior player to do this, and kicking out on the full and lazily knocking on inside the first 10 minutes is not a good example to be setting whoever you are or wherever you might have played before.

So can Agar be excused then if he is working with average players?

He didn't impress you although he was by far our best player last season, and had the personal awards to show for it?

Just shows how poor we where last season as well...
Maybe he was awarded for his versatility in positions he played to accomodate Dykes.
Surprisingly one ot the best players for me last season especially towards the end was Graham Horne speaks volumes

Don't be silly. He got the awards because he was our best player by far.

There is no way you can blame Berrigan for that knock on IMO it was a crazy offload from Thacks whilst he was getting swung around.

Agar should be doing all he can to get the team working together and playing well. Not all our players are average but two thirds of them I would say are. Some coach are able to make average players looks quality. Something Agar isn't capable of doing.

We'll agree to differ. Berrigan should at least have been looking in the direction of Thackray at the time.

Berrigan average? PMSL

I agree. However you would also expect your best player to lead by example and drag the team through games kicking and screaming if he has too. He should be standing out as our best player, but he isn't, he did last season. So for me it's either he is lacking in attitude or he is playing injured.

Well apparently he isn't our best player, he is only average.

Disagree.

Thackray should have been looking to get a qptb instead of a ridiculous offload in traffic and that no-one was expecting. Berro was clearly looking to sort the next play and to blame him for Thackrays error is just plain stupid.

Totally agree, Thacks shouldn't of been thinking about a stupid offload.

Well he's certainly been nothing special for us this year. If this season was the first time you'd seen him, you would call him an average player.

You have a point, but to call such a world class player average is crazy. Berrigans still carrying an injury isn't he? Also as I said earlier, the players around him arn't giving him anything to work with imo ie just standing there waiting for the ball to be passed to them instead of recieving it while moving up.
Berrigan also seems to do alot of tackling which isn't a bad thing obviously as he's a very very good defender. But surely after all this must affect his attacking side of his game, been knackered and all...

Berrigan was already setting himself for the next PTB.

As for his overall play, put him in leeds, saints, shudds or even teh dobbins side where he has willing runners around him and other players taking some of the burden and he'd be awesome. Problem in the Hull side is he thinks twice as fast as everyone else. Lost count of the times he's looking around for players

He's an excellent player but has been below average this season and way below what he can be. You say it is because of the other players around him but I daresay he would see it as his responsibility to play to the top of his game.

What's he supposed to do though? From what I undesrtand his knee injury restricts his training, he has to have injections to get on the field, then when he does, he's expected to do everything. I think if he was in the saints side, with lots of options around him he'd look a hell of a lot better

If his injury is that restrictive, which would explain his performances this year, then he should be having the operation he was talking about in the HDM now. Chris Thorman would look better in the Saints side because their players are all better than ours. Totally agree with you there.

The problem i have with this is that he was injured for last season but kept playing i thought he had a shoulder op in the close so was now fit and well if he is crock again is this another bad signing.

I was lead to believe we were getting someone who could take over Swain, we have gotten nothing like. He was supposed to be the worlds best hooker, sorry to say this but Houghton has changed more games then him.

He does not lead or direct play,and yes if we had better players than he would look better but he is getting paid a good crack and should be showing more. If he is injured don,t play him, we have a good replacement,who goes forward.

The problem is Agar, the players (proven SL players, many internationals)look completely lost. They start every game the same, with no idea whatsoever, a decent coach quick.

I'm sure he'd have had the operation if the rest of the team were playing to their potential, but it's probably a measure of the man that he feels he needs to keep playing through it. Also played whilst needing an op last season.

And thorman would still look like a turd playing for saints, in fact he'd be about 10 yards behind play most of the time