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| Quote ="Scarlet Pimpernell"The death penalty are you mad, even some of the states in the USA are removing it from their statute because it does not work. How many have been released because of miscarriages of justice meaning they were innocent. I suppose these cases would probably not be reopened because it’s a little tricky to bring someone back from the dead.
What next we revisit the introduction of workhouses like one of their new MP’s suggested. Why not bring back fox hunting, I fear for any of the minorities who are going to face an increase in prejudice that some of our fellow citizens believe Brexit allows them.'"
Miscarriages of justice some are so clear cut they shouldn't breath oxygen, had the police not disposed of the London attacker we would of just give a cell to other waste of life, it's time the law was tougher
And no I'm not a conservative |
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| Quote ="Kevs Head"Brexiters want to take the country back to the 50s and now some on here want to bring back hanging. I despair. And how anybody in their right mind can think for one millisecond that the Tories in general and Johnson in particular give even one tiny fraction of a flying f.. K about places such as Blyth Valley, Workington, Dewsbury and Wakefield is beyond me. For just one example of their mindset look at how disabled and seriously ill people have been forced to work and/or denied benefits. Being callous and uncaring of the vulnerable, sick, less able and plain unlucky is hard wired in to Tory DNA. I guarantee that all those people who think they've been ignored and left behind are going to be sorely disappointed. Sorry.'"
Don't be sorry .Good post. |
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Some but not all, unfortunately the death penalty would be applied to some of these and what do you do then say sorry we got it wrong. The Birmingham 6, Steven Kitchcoe for example, all convicted for murder all had to be released after they are found to have not committed the crimes.
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| Quote ="Kevs Head"Brexiters want to take the country back to the 50s and now some on here want to bring back hanging. I despair. And how anybody in their right mind can think for one millisecond that the Tories in general and Johnson in particular give even one tiny fraction of a flying f.. K about places such as Blyth Valley, Workington, Dewsbury and Wakefield is beyond me. For just one example of their mindset look at how disabled and seriously ill people have been forced to work and/or denied benefits. Being callous and uncaring of the vulnerable, sick, less able and plain unlucky is hard wired in to Tory DNA. I guarantee that all those people who think they've been ignored and left behind are going to be sorely disappointed. Sorry.'"
I know first hand what life was like for the working class under the tories, I was a miner in 84/85 and didn’t have a pot to p.ss in for 12 months .Had to take tv and vcr back to rental shop early doors and went over to the pit for a food parcel every week to keep my family going ,so I know what hardships all about .Id broken my neck the previous year underground through faulty equipment and was pursuing a claim against the coal board ,6 months into the strike 2 officials visited me at home to offer me £1000.00 damages for the negligence claim, on the condition I signed to say I could lay no further claim later in life if things got worse , that was like manor to heaven for me at the time .According to my union rep I should have turned it down as I was looking at a substantial payout .
I’m 57 now and walk with a limp and about to go in for a disc fusing all Down to that accident all those years ago ,but I’ve never gone on the sick or claimed benefits ,I’m from an era where you crack on and get on with it .When I see people jumping out of blue badged cars and stroll off shopping or the benefit stick culture that is sweeping the country it saddens me that we are becoming a nation of moaning minnies, always looking to blame . I voted Tory in Wakefield for the first time in my life simply because labour has i my eyes done jack all for us proud people of wakefield. Im sure the new incumbent Isn’t gunna wave a magic wand and the streets of wakefield will be paved of gold ,but I’m sure it’ll be better than what it is now which is beggars, druggies and thief’s . |
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| Quote ="Scarlet Pimpernell"Some but not all, unfortunately the death penalty would be applied to some of these and what do you do then say sorry we got it wrong. The Birmingham 6, Steven Kitchcoe for example, all convicted for murder all had to be released after they are found to have not committed the crimes.'" some but not all, I sense a slight change now in your opinion, the ones who are caught in the act with a smoking gun or bloody machete are so clear the other get life which means life unless they prove they are innocent simples.
Let's down grade a little in the crimes are you happy that someone can walk into your house hooded and demand your car keys and threaten your life or try to steal your dogs while walking in the street leaving you beaten up this has happened in wakefield recently. |
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| Quote ="snowie"Miscarriages of justice some are so clear cut they shouldn't breath oxygen, had the police not disposed of the London attacker we would of just give a cell to other waste of life, it's time the law was tougher
And no I'm not a conservative'"
I totally agree that the law has to be tougher. It sickens me when I see some of the mindless filth in our society
brought before the courts having many times wrecked somebody's life, by violence or whatever, and being handed
joke sentences.
I really don't know what planet some of the juges are on, but they should hang their heads in shame and just for once think of the victim.
Not an advocate of the death penalty but life means life. simple as that. |
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| Quote ="Kettykat"I know first hand what life was like for the working class under the tories, I was a miner in 84/85 and didn’t have a pot to p.ss in for 12 months .Had to take tv and vcr back to rental shop early doors and went over to the pit for a food parcel every week to keep my family going ,so I know what hardships all about .Id broken my neck the previous year underground through faulty equipment and was pursuing a claim against the coal board ,6 months into the strike 2 officials visited me at home to offer me £1000.00 damages for the negligence claim, on the condition I signed to say I could lay no further claim later in life if things got worse , that was like manor to heaven for me at the time .According to my union rep I should have turned it down as I was looking at a substantial payout .
I’m 57 now and walk with a limp and about to go in for a disc fusing all Down to that accident all those years ago ,but I’ve never gone on the sick or claimed benefits ,I’m from an era where you crack on and get on with it .When I see people jumping out of blue badged cars and stroll off shopping or the benefit stick culture that is sweeping the country it saddens me that we are becoming a nation of moaning minnies, always looking to blame . I voted Tory in Wakefield for the first time in my life simply because labour has i my eyes done jack all for us proud people of wakefield. Im sure the new incumbent Isn’t gunna wave a magic wand and the streets of wakefield will be paved of gold ,but I’m sure it’ll be better than what it is now which is beggars, druggies and thief’s .'"
I'm no expert Ketty but I'd say you would have good grounds to go back on that agreement, especially in light of other claims from that era. It wouldn't be hard to prove you were bullied in to signing. |
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| Quote ="Kettykat"I know first hand what life was like for the working class under the tories, I was a miner in 84/85 and didn’t have a pot to p.ss in for 12 months .Had to take tv and vcr back to rental shop early doors and went over to the pit for a food parcel every week to keep my family going ,so I know what hardships all about .Id broken my neck the previous year underground through faulty equipment and was pursuing a claim against the coal board ,6 months into the strike 2 officials visited me at home to offer me £1000.00 damages for the negligence claim, on the condition I signed to say I could lay no further claim later in life if things got worse , that was like manor to heaven for me at the time .According to my union rep I should have turned it down as I was looking at a substantial payout .
I’m 57 now and walk with a limp and about to go in for a disc fusing all Down to that accident all those years ago ,but I’ve never gone on the sick or claimed benefits ,I’m from an era where you crack on and get on with it .When I see people jumping out of blue badged cars and stroll off shopping or the benefit stick culture that is sweeping the country it saddens me that we are becoming a nation of moaning minnies, always looking to blame . I voted Tory in Wakefield for the first time in my life simply because labour has i my eyes done jack all for us proud people of wakefield. Im sure the new incumbent Isn’t gunna wave a magic wand and the streets of wakefield will be paved of gold ,but I’m sure it’ll be better than what it is now which is beggars, druggies and thief’s .'"
 You and me both Ketty Cat except I didn’t vote Tory |
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| Quote ="The Ghost of '99"This is literally the lie that will never die. I should be amazed that people still believe the stuff on the side of the bus after all these years but sadly it's still out there.'"
Really? In 2016 we paid in 13 billion and got 8 billion back from the EU we spend about .48% of our GDP in supporting the EU we get back about .3%
We have had our industries dismantled into just in time suppliers as part of a supply chain with many companies that are or were British household names producing and being managed in other European Countries and beyond of course.
This after rebates before rebates it would be about 13 Billion we would pay, this was the figure on the bus the reality is its over half that amount.
As for the death penalty when we leave we will be able to amend our Human Righrs legislation without the EU Court dictating. I would not expect too much change but life should mean life except in exceptional circumstances. |
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Posting numbers on here is no different to the bus.
Even if ever number is factually true its only half the picture.
We've had a vote. It went against my opinion first time.
We've had another vote and the result was overwhelming.
I don't see the point of the "we won the argument" comment from Corbyn or the 'were all doomed' supporters.
We have a government. Let's move forward and see what happens. We've been stood still too long.
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| Quote ="PopTart"Posting numbers on here is no different to the bus.
Even if ever number is factually true its only half the picture.
We've had a vote. It went against my opinion first time.
We've had another vote and the result was overwhelming.
I don't see the point of the "we won the argument" comment from Corbyn or the 'were all doomed' supporters.
We have a government. Let's move forward and see what happens. We've been stood still too long.'"
I think this is Pop Tarts way of saying it’s getting boring now  and I agree, at the end of the day what’s happened as happened and I very much doubt the hard working people will feel much difference. |
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I’ve always said Snowie that if, god forbid, anything happened like that to any members of my family I’d be quite happy to flick the switch, pull the trigger, shove the needle with even a grin on my face  |
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I’ve always said Snowie that if, god forbid, anything happened like that to any members of my family I’d be quite happy to flick the switch, pull the trigger, shove the needle with even a grin on my face | |
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| Quote ="Big lads mate"I’ve always said Snowie that if, god forbid, anything happened like that to any members of my family I’d be quite happy to flick the switch, pull the trigger, shove the needle with even a grin on my face
'" yeah me too but some would like to turn the other cheek and forgive them,
take Diane Abbott for instance she was up in arms over police taking out thieving motorcyclist in case someone but the police continued and it looks like the trend has at least slowed down
Harder stance is needed |
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| Quote ="Scarlet Pimpernell"Some but not all, unfortunately the death penalty would be applied to some of these and what do you do then say sorry we got it wrong. The Birmingham 6, Steven Kitchcoe for example, all convicted for murder all had to be released after they are found to have not committed the crimes.'"
Indeed.
There is a major issue regarding some "political/religious" prisoners in that, regardless of how long the spend behind bars, will they ever change their view of the world. In many cases, their views can become further entrenched whilst in prison - the recent London Bridge case proving the point.
Locking them up doesn't help anyone and the sure as hell aren't safe to be released - I'm not sure that there is an answer.
Perhaps not allowing people back into the UK could be an answer but, this only moves the problem elsewhere, it doesn't solve it.
As for the death penalty, it certainly isn't a deterrent and as you rightly point out, there have been plenty of cases in the fairly recent past where innocent people have been banged up and the real perpetrators remain free. |
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Indeed.
There is a major issue regarding some "political/religious" prisoners in that, regardless of how long the spend behind bars, will they ever change their view of the world. In many cases, their views can become further entrenched whilst in prison - the recent London Bridge case proving the point.
Locking them up doesn't help anyone and the sure as hell aren't safe to be released - I'm not sure that there is an answer.
Perhaps not allowing people back into the UK could be an answer but, this only moves the problem elsewhere, it doesn't solve it.
As for the death penalty, it certainly isn't a deterrent and as you rightly point out, there have been plenty of cases in the fairly recent past where innocent people have been banged up and the real perpetrators remain free.'"
100% correct Wren regarding being locked up, take it from me most are educated more inside about crime than on the out and with 3 meals a day a roof over their head and an occasional spray tan thrown in, yes a spray tan  |
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Child molesters and rapists should definitely face the death penalty, there’s no place in society for them and it’d ease the burden on prison officers.
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Here is where I got my info from.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governme ... 2017-10-31
Whichever way you look at it, a lot of money, where it could be invested better in the UK, for such as NHS, policing, etc.
As for capital punishment, I would say paedophiles, and mass murderers, but then other crimes, to have tougher sentences than what is carried now. |
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Here is where I got my info from.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governme ... 2017-10-31
Whichever way you look at it, a lot of money, where it could be invested better in the UK, for such as NHS, policing, etc.
As for capital punishment, I would say paedophiles, and mass murderers, but then other crimes, to have tougher sentences than what is carried now. | |
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But the whole point of the EU is that it means mutual prosperity (relative to where we would be outside it). The contributions are immaterial in the context of the UK government budget but also are massively outweighed by the economic benefits being members brings - it's a cheap price to pay for access to the world's largest single market. And the contributions, FWIW, don't just go into the pockets of the so-called unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, they are reinvested, like the money which comes back to the UK, in other parts of the EU to help make them more prosperous and so better able to buy our goods and services - it's the whole idea of the mutual benefits of membership. That new road in Greece helps get your goods to market faster, the Motorway of the Sea opens up new export markets which weren't feasible before.
The most frustrating thing about the EU debate was the simplistic zero-sum game being put forward - take the money out of there, invest it here. It takes only a tiny reduction in the UK's prosperity for the contributions to be overcome by reduced tax take and almost no-one is putting forward the argument that we won't see a reduction in economic activity and prosperity following Brexit (we've already very clearly seen it as the UK fell from the front to the back of the growth tables).
One silver lining of Johnson getting a decent sized majority is that he will no longer be in thrall to the hard right of his party so should be able to get a more centrist arrangement through the House of Commons than he would have before - it will still be a pretty hard Brexit with no Single Market or Customs Union but probably not one the nutter wing of his party will have much time for. |
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But the whole point of the EU is that it means mutual prosperity (relative to where we would be outside it). The contributions are immaterial in the context of the UK government budget but also are massively outweighed by the economic benefits being members brings - it's a cheap price to pay for access to the world's largest single market. And the contributions, FWIW, don't just go into the pockets of the so-called unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, they are reinvested, like the money which comes back to the UK, in other parts of the EU to help make them more prosperous and so better able to buy our goods and services - it's the whole idea of the mutual benefits of membership. That new road in Greece helps get your goods to market faster, the Motorway of the Sea opens up new export markets which weren't feasible before.
The most frustrating thing about the EU debate was the simplistic zero-sum game being put forward - take the money out of there, invest it here. It takes only a tiny reduction in the UK's prosperity for the contributions to be overcome by reduced tax take and almost no-one is putting forward the argument that we won't see a reduction in economic activity and prosperity following Brexit (we've already very clearly seen it as the UK fell from the front to the back of the growth tables).
One silver lining of Johnson getting a decent sized majority is that he will no longer be in thrall to the hard right of his party so should be able to get a more centrist arrangement through the House of Commons than he would have before - it will still be a pretty hard Brexit with no Single Market or Customs Union but probably not one the nutter wing of his party will have much time for. | |
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| Quote ="Big lads mate"100% correct Wren regarding being locked up, take it from me most are educated more inside about crime than on the out and with 3 meals a day a roof over their head and an occasional spray tan thrown in, yes a spray tan
'"
So true BLM.
And Great Britain, where you can get put in prison for not having a TV licence, then while you're banged up, get to watch free TV.
The irony.
F**king unbelievable. |
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| Quote ="The Ghost of '99"But the whole point of the EU is that it means mutual prosperity (relative to where we would be outside it). The contributions are immaterial in the context of the UK government budget but also are massively outweighed by the economic benefits being members brings - it's a cheap price to pay for access to the world's largest single market. And the contributions, FWIW, don't just go into the pockets of the so-called unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, they are reinvested, like the money which comes back to the UK, in other parts of the EU to help make them more prosperous and so better able to buy our goods and services - it's the whole idea of the mutual benefits of membership. That new road in Greece helps get your goods to market faster, the Motorway of the Sea opens up new export markets which weren't feasible before.
The most frustrating thing about the EU debate was the simplistic zero-sum game being put forward - take the money out of there, invest it here. It takes only a tiny reduction in the UK's prosperity for the contributions to be overcome by reduced tax take and almost no-one is putting forward the argument that we won't see a reduction in economic activity and prosperity following Brexit (we've already very clearly seen it as the UK fell from the front to the back of the growth tables).
One silver lining of Johnson getting a decent sized majority is that he will no longer be in thrall to the hard right of his party so should be able to get a more centrist arrangement through the House of Commons than he would have before - it will still be a pretty hard Brexit with no Single Market or Customs Union but probably not one the nutter wing of his party will have much time for.'"
The EU maybe the world's biggest trade market but looking at individual Countries Germany us France and Italy are in the top 10 take us out of the EU it maybe a different picture.
Being in the EU has dismantled our manufacturing from start to finish businesses to just in time supply. |
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| Quote ="The Ghost of '99"But the whole point of the EU is that it means mutual prosperity (relative to where we would be outside it). The contributions are immaterial in the context of the UK government budget but also are massively outweighed by the economic benefits being members brings - it's a cheap price to pay for access to the world's largest single market. And the contributions, FWIW, don't just go into the pockets of the so-called unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, they are reinvested, like the money which comes back to the UK, in other parts of the EU to help make them more prosperous and so better able to buy our goods and services - it's the whole idea of the mutual benefits of membership. That new road in Greece helps get your goods to market faster, the Motorway of the Sea opens up new export markets which weren't feasible before.
The most frustrating thing about the EU debate was the simplistic zero-sum game being put forward - take the money out of there, invest it here. It takes only a tiny reduction in the UK's prosperity for the contributions to be overcome by reduced tax take and almost no-one is putting forward the argument that we won't see a reduction in economic activity and prosperity following Brexit (we've already very clearly seen it as the UK fell from the front to the back of the growth tables).
One silver lining of Johnson getting a decent sized majority is that he will no longer be in thrall to the hard right of his party so should be able to get a more centrist arrangement through the House of Commons than he would have before - it will still be a pretty hard Brexit with no Single Market or Customs Union but probably not one the nutter wing of his party will have much time for.'"
That road in Greece should be up to them to sort their infrastructure out not us |
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| Quote ="Big lads mate"I think this is Pop Tarts way of saying it’s getting boring now
and I agree, at the end of the day what’s happened as happened and I very much doubt the hard working people will feel much difference.'"
Spot on BLM.
Lets move on, there are far more important things to moan about, like, Broughy's past it, Jowitt can't defend, the players are not fit, Clawson needs to go, Lyne will never be a centre in this wide world plus all the other moans that we usually see through a season.
Plus the important selection of next years scapegoat has to be done. |
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| Quote ="snowie"That road in Greece should be up to them to sort their infrastructure out not us'"
Fair enough, that's a rational reason for voting leave. The alternative view is that mutual prosperity is good for us both economically and in securing the ongoing European peace (the EU's biggest achievement) so helping the poorer countries become less poor immeasurably helps us too.
But the idea that leaving leaves our economy untouched and that our tax take will be unchanged so the money can just be spent on the NHS or whatever is a bit of a fallacy. |
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You and me both Ketty Cat except I didn’t vote Tory
and I agree, at the end of the day what’s happened as happened and I very much doubt the hard working people will feel much difference.
