Its Tomkins and as i stated above, why are Wigan being slated in relation to the cap when they are one of the few clubs not being investigated for tax dodging and hence breaching the cap rules with offshore payments and image rights?

Lets not let the facts get in the way of a good witch hunt.

Because 'tax dodging' isnt breaching the cap rules perchance? Because there is specific clauses within the cap rules which deal with an issue such as this and make clear that it wouldnt result in a cap breach? And because Wigan are famed for breaking the cap rules maybe?

You're 100% right but I'm afraid you're wasting your breath; clearly, you're jealous of Wigan's success etc etc.

When was the last time Tomkins milked a penalty by trapping the arm? Yes it was a tactic he used earlier in the season but the refs soon got wise to it, and in fact it now works against him as refs are wise to it and so are the defence who use it against him.

Lima is/was responsible for most if not all the rest of what you talk about and he got caned when he first came over, he has since changed his game and is no longer doing those things.

Wigan concentrate on defence without doubt, personally I like that, but to claim they are dull to watch is up there with JK claiming it is like watching paint dry as Trinity get length of the field tries scored past them by Amos Roberts in his pomp.

You keep using this word jealous, yet only you have mentioned it at all.

He tried it a fair amount today and would likely have got a penalty or two had Ganson decided to give his whistle the night off. He wouldnt still be doing if he wasnt getting the decision from time to time.

He is still doing these things, thats why people are complaining. And he isnt the only one.

That isnt an argument, its a statement, a ridiculous one at that. I find the way Wigan play the game boring, I find a lot of the game in Australia mind-numbingly boring only punctuated by glimpses of oustanding skill. Watching two players wrestle for a couple of seconds holds no interest for me, I dont go to matches and watch matches to see tackle technique it adds nothing to the spectacle of our game. When they put together a highlights package at the end of the year there will be clips of bone-crunching tackles, massive hit-ups, offloads, line-breaks, catches, side-steps etc, there wont be any of O'loughlin wrestling a player on to his back to buy his colleagues a couple of extra seconds, or Hoffman holding a player up whilst Lima works them over before putting them to the ground facing the wrong way so they have a couple more seconds to retreat the ten. Do you know why? Because it is boring to watch.

I'm sorry to doubt you but if you find the NRL boring to watch you are on a different planet to me. I have to question do you actually watch it?

I ask again, do not speculate, when was the last time Tomkins got a penalty for trapping the arm? I can name several occasions when he has been held down especially against Warrington where the defence used this tactic against him to ensure they got to lay on a little longer.

I was always coached by Trinity coaches, first man takes the ball second man takes the legs, the fact that good teams now put more men in the tackle should not be criticised if it is effective. How many players have been maimed by these despicable tactics. Clarkson took a shot fair play and Lima took the ban. Despite the Yorkshire Post report it was not a murder investigation.

Yes, i watch plenty. I even attended the '99 GF which was a fantastic spectacle.

Im sure you could, you have shown just how biased towards Wigan you are.

Good teams wouldnt need to put more men in the tackle, good teams wouldnt need to slow the ball down, good teams wouldnt need to attack the knee, they wouldnt need to milk penalties, they wouldnt need to wrestle at the PTB. It can be as 'effective' as you like, it doesnt mean it is a good thing or makes for a good spectacle, id rather be watching rugby actually being played than players wrestling on the floor.

So would I - as a wise man once said, "it's like watching paint dry."

So you watch the NRL and find it dull?

Tomkins milked a shed load of penalties early door this year I am not disputing that, what i am saying is because of this refs got wise and now he gets hammered the other ways. Its a double edged sword and at the moment he is paying for the refs scrutiny that he once benefited from, that the nature of the game.

All teams try to put bodies in the tackle your last paragraph sums up a good team. Its against the rules if you get penalised for it. Coaches criticise it because they want more pressure from refs. it's funny how nobody criticises Hudds anymore as they now are not as good at it as Wigan.

its funny how away from the ears of fans coaches and players rave about the tactics of Wigan.

its an argument i will never win, i understand that so will leave it there but, to be called blinkered by people trying to justify an offside try against the rules of the game then slam Wigan for cheating the cap yet follow teams being investigated by HMRC for offshore payments I find very very ironic..........and blinkered.

Didnt that bite him on the behind!!

Batley's finest, clearly a world class coach and someone all rugby people should listen to!

Learn the rules ?

If you'd learned to read, I make two references to Wigan's attacking flair and never suggested they only won because of the ref. My point which you chose to dodge in a rush to play the 'jealousy card' is that Wigan are so good they don't need to resort to the cheating, or as you put it professionalism. It would have been closer today, but you'd still have won - so why the need for Farell to be "flopper in chief" running in late to every tackle just to put his hands on the back of a team mate and pin him down a few more seconds ? Why does Carmont have to tackle, lie on the guy, spin round like helicopter blades, check his line are ready then get off ? Why does Tomkins have to flop on his back with the guys arms under him and bleat every time he's tackled ?

I didn't hate Wigan when they were crap under Noble or Millward or when they were brilliant under Gregory cos they weren't doing the same sort of rubbish they're doing now? So the "nobody likes us" whinge is null and void.

Theres no jealousy - Nobody hates Wire, because they win without having to resort to gamesmanship. Why would Hudds unfurl a congratulatory banner at their own game ? Saints crushed us twice because they played blinding but within the rules.

Wigan should be applauded by all for 75% of the rugby they play - but its hard to root for them as a neutral in their matches because of the 25% that winds everybody up. Right now is anybody but them, because the 'anybody' is doing what they're doing.

In your original post you state 2 Cats tries were chalked off, you also slate Locky for making a tackle.

I am willing to accept the forward pass was probably a wrong call, but other than that what was the problem? the game was played to the rules or do you not agree?

All players ask for the video even when the video is not available, also nothing wrong with the Locky challenge.

What is your thoughts on the elbows to the face that Tomkins and Locky received today on several occasions?

if Wire go on a 5 year winning streak they will become very unpopular. Ask most peoples thoughts on Leeds a couple of years ago.

Its back to the Terry Newton thing 100% of Trinity supporters hated him, then he signs for you and the opinion suddenly changes, but once more I am the blinkered one.

PS I never ever said anyone is jealous.

Carmont is looking at the ref by the way not the line. Once a dominant tackle is called he is waiting for instruction from the ref prior to getting off. Ignorance of this is not an excuse.

And FYI Wire beat Wigan because they were far better on the day, it had bugger all to do with the ref.

Why dont you do one and watch wigan. A team of bullies and ref pleaders seem right up your street ! If you talk about the next level look at Warrington ! Catalan were out of the contest last night thanks to the ref I watched the game I dont have to listen to eddie and Stevo.

Catalan were completely outplayed last night. Losing players and having to reshuffle the side did have bearing on that, but IMO it only had a bearing on the score not the result.

One thing I will say though is the RFL need to review the offside rule. Especially with instances like yesterday when the Bosc try was disallowed. To the letter of the law it was rightly disallowed but when it is looked at, although Stacul was in front of the kicker he played no active part in actions which led to the no-try two other onside players challenged Tomkins. If a player does not play an active then there should be some flexibility in the rule. If the letter of the law is to be observed for offside then it needs to be applied to everything. For instances attacking players are rarely called offside at the play the ball yet quite often in many games this happens. The other part of the offside rule that needs changing is if a player starts running down field from an offside position before the ball is kicked whether he gives the player who receives the ball 10 metres or not (unless played on by the kicker) should be given offside because he got there sooner than he would have had he been onside to start with.

I did notice a couple of times yesterday that Wigan players were not standing square and Ganson called them not to get involved in the tackle, which to fair they didn't, but there was one instance involving O'Loughlin where he was not onside from marker, didn't get involved in the tackle, but ran a line back to the defensive line that shepherded the Catalan player into the waiting Wigan defenders.

It should have been 18-12 at half time. Catalan were like a wounded animal thanks to the ref. That first half was very even indeed they ran away with it thanks to the ref.

Yes, it isnt a difficult point to understand even though you have needed it explained three times now. I watch the NRL and find a lot of it boring, a lot of it is uninteresting wrestling and the PTB is a mess in Aus. There are moments of sheer genius which makes it worthwhile but the wrestling tactics etc are a negative influence on the Australian game it makes a lot of games turgid and repetitive.
No, it isn’t a good team, it’s a cynical team. I have watched good teams, and I have watched good players. None of them will ever be remembered for messing about at the ruck and slowing the PTB.
Once again I have to point out to you that there is specific provision within the salary cap rules for a situation like this. The RFL has given their approval within the salary cap structure for clubs to use these types of schemes. Im not sure how much clearer I can make this difference for you.