Also without myself trying to be nasty, on what basis should we have to make way for you in SL. The only thing going for you that we cannot compete with at the moment is your council owned stadium, hopefully that problem will be resolved in the near future, not if but when it does happen which of the criteria demanded by the RFL will your club take a lead over ours, if it was not for the likes of Saints and Wire you probably could not field a team let alone win anything.

At the moment there is nothing to say that you will make way or that we will be the ones to replace you! If you get your ground then I don't see there being a problem and your board seem confident that you will so it's all gravy.
My question was that if you don't get your ground by 2012 then surely you can't have any complaints.
Not sure what you mean about Saints or Wire either???
For your record.. in the last round of franchising we were given a B score by both Sky and League Express in their evaluations. In the end our administration was the factor that kept us out. That won't be a problem this time around with SOC backing us.

Widnes Will make it in even through they haven't played as good this season because of the stadium, you will end up buying some of the players from the team going down

They only have a right to remove us if our franchise bid is the worst of the lot, speaking of which with this new criteria which has been formulated by the rfl how do they know that a championship side will have a better application some 4 month before the SL clubs submit theirs' by saying that a championship side will replace a SL side in 2012. And yes if we dont have posh toilets by then I suppose we will deserve to miss out. Just as a matter of interest who from Sky gave you a b score your Turry and auntie Angela, tbh I would take more notice of the new musical express than the league express as it goes, best of luck anyway I am sure you wont need it.

The problem with some of the above, that a club coming up should only replace the worst team in SL if we directly beat them, is it is absolutely impossible for a team in the championship to drum up the support and the squad needed to beat any super league team. Thats why it needs to be based on potential. There is a tiny salary cap in this division, meaning the biggest clubs cannot financially dominate, so league position under licensing is an unfair way of doing things. There are virtually no away fans for most of the games and we're in a competition with largely no greater meaning. Stagnation is becoming a way of life in this sport.

Upon what basis should Wakefield, or Castleford, or Huddersfield, be allowed to stay in super league indefinitely and with no threat to their position? Why should any club be given that right and why should other teams have to stay in the second tier which becomes weaker by the season? NFL style promotion would only protect people who don't necessarily deserve it and make others suffer whose only mistake was not being in the top league at this point in history.

It is absolutely vital that there is a path to the top for teams in the championship. I think given them a chance there are a number of teams who could give it a go as good or better than a number of super leaguers and why on earth deny them? I would take P & R back tomorrow even though my club is primed for a franchise but not primed for winning the league. The longer this system is in place, the weaker teams down here become and the more likely they will never be ready for super league. We are heading towards a system of feeder teams and I suspect people know that all very well but then they wont be bothered about the health of clubs outside their little sphere.

More money, higher attendances, more youth players going through into first team (for the club), higher average finish

In division 1

Yes it just shows what pathetic crowds we get, when a small town who played in a league lower still managed to get a higher attendance than us.

Sorry i must have missed the attendance bit that i quoted

=#FF0000Then use some of it and get on with your building work

=#0000FFWe'll see, we signed a lot up last year that haven't broken through this year but may do next (especially as we can't afford to sign anyone else, allegedly)

=#008000Bearing in mind that last decision was based on 3 previous seasons, we have 8th(200icon_cool.gif + 5th(2009) + 10th(2010) (or maybe 11th). That gives us an average of 8th (or slightly better if we finish 10th this year).
You have 12th(200icon_cool.gif + 8th(2009) + 8th(2010) (or maybe 9th if Crusaders can beat Hull KR). That gives you an average of just worse than 9th. How is that better???

Plus you have a disrepute charge and a fine for your homophobic fans that we don't have. You probably think that gives you an extra point too but I would think it probably works against you.

Absolute classic

There are some problems with your argument, and principally the view that "we got in". We didn't "get in". We were already in, on playing merit. You were already out, on playing merit. No shafting involved for Widnes.

The issue is being looked at again now because we are three years further in and so we are able to make an assessment of it. It is making the game dull for the last third of the season from 10th spot down, and as I understand it, the Championship is going less well, because the big prize has gone.

In terms of the future, one of two things will happen: the top flight will become a sealed closed shop, with no one ever going out, or it won't, and there will be a one-club rotation every three years. In the first scenario, the Championship dies. The second scenario is just as bad, because that it means we have promotion and relegation, but by committee, and the Widnes argument appears to be that the committee-decisions reached so far have shafted one particular club, so why is that to be applauded.

Yes, franchising puts us at risk, but relegation doesn't exactly leave us safe either, because we could be gone by the end of 2011 if it was brought back for next year.

Because it's not based over past three years but 09/10. We finished SEVENTH last year, not eighth and are on course to finish 8th this year. 7+8 = 7.5. You're currently 10th but could finish 11th. A 10th place finish puts us equal. An eleventh place finish puts us better. However, if we finish in the play-offs twice that should look better than one play-off finish

7th or 8th

if you can't do better than that why bother

Show us a link to say where the RFL have stated that is the criteria please.

In this morning's RLE the quote the odds from William Hill as:
Castleford 1/1
Wakefield 6/5
Salford 8/1
Quins 25/1
Crusader 25/1

If Sky are as powerful as we think they will want to keep Quins and the welsh concern in. Salford are a bit further on with their stadium AND SL/Sky will want to keep a Manchester team in. So it's a two horse race unless Quins can turn things around.

Oh goody - someone can make money by betting on the unfortunate outcome for 1 club!

The trouble is, no criteria has been released. However, the old 'criteria' is no longer being used and obviously the criteria for performance will based over the last licence period, not prior to it.

Rugby League became a circus the moment they put Catalans in and said they could not be relegated for three years. Could you imagine the FA doing that? I think not! Crusaders come up, then shift there location, they have three premium coaches, and survive on gates circa 2000, where does their revenue come from? How do clubs like Quins, and Crusaders manage to be exempt from the rules everyone else plays by with regards to overseas players? The RFL says they can! The whole sport is becoming laughing stock! When will the RFL realise this is a NORTHERN game, the good people of Wales and London are not really bothered and it is high time the RFl stop bending the rules for them, and make Super League and equal competition!

Absolutely shocking.

I'm sure there are a lot worse. Bookies will have a good idea of the situation otherwise they will loose money.

yes I think I would be ashamed by that too, a small town club like Cas that has outdone a BIG city team like wakey

to me i think returning to P/R is vital for the future of RL, as a giants fan i can say the best thing that happened to us was when we were relegated after the shambles of the made up merger, i think the rfl should make the championship fully pro by investing some of the sky money there so when a side is relegated its not the end of the world. I also think the ground shouldnt be a major issue in the franchising bid but if it is how come odsal never seems to be mentioned about having to be redeveloped as imo its worse than all the others under threat.

if the last month has taught us anything, the bookies know naff all about SL!!!

thankfully.

If no criteria has been released then how do we know the criteria won't be same as it was? In all a shocking state of affairs, how is a club supposed to strive for any kind of standard when they don't really know what that standard is!