The point I am trying to make AJ is if the police or security services get reliable that is if anything is totally reliable that a terrorist plot is under way whether at very early stage or advanced then all means neccessary should be used to gleam information, whether you call it interrogation or torture to me is neither here or there.

Mind games such as sleep deprivation and the like are mental torture are you saying we should not even try this or just give them a pat on the back saying oh well at least we asked.

How do you know that?
Non of us, have any idea of the info, the Americans and us have got out of Guantamo Bay.
We don't know, how many lives have been saved, because of the info they have got.

As Dreamer has pointed out, torture isn't just beating people senseless.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's counter productive.

Exactly, and knowing the Americans, if they had got anything worthwhile out of it, we would know by now.

And I have to ask, if it is a success, why is it closing next year?

Its good to have a debate like this. AJ recently the usa and the uk have foiled and arrested folk relating to terrorist plots are you really believing that if we asked those involved nicely they would spill the beans on others that may be part of any plot, if so you are in a different world to me. Out of curiousity is one of your favourite songs white flag by dido

that last comment is, quite frankly, insulting, smiley wink or not.

But it doesn't surprise me.

I know where AJ is coming from; if we are supposed to be 'better' than the terrorists, we shouldn't be sinking to their level. Yes, terrorists do evil things, that's why they are the bad guys! We, on the other hand, are trying to occupy the moral high ground, so we can't admit to doing bad stuff.
But, I'm pretty sure there's all sorts going on on our behalf, that we never find out about. Probably just as well...

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/14/newsid_3985000/3985287.stmwelcome to the real world[/url

A US military spokesman, Major-General Raymond Odierno, said the operation was launched soon after a tip-off from a member of Saddam Hussein's own extended family.

There was a $25m reward offered by the US authorities for information leading to his capture.

A similar reward was claimed for revealing the whereabouts of Saddam Hussein's sons, Uday and Qusay, who were killed in a raid by US forces in the northern city of Mosul in July.