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Quote ="Lord God Jose Mourinho"Nothing really. In fact, Tottenham have been pretty generous to us in my time.
On reflection, I'd say that my dislike of Tottenham is actually about 10% of my dislike of Liverpool.'"
strangely enough, although I love seeing The Gooners getting well and truly stuffed the team I really don't like is Villa ! I think it goes back to the time of Doug Ellis who always came over as a smarmy git ! a totally irrational reason to dislike a team when you think of it ?
he was knighted for his services to charity recently and if you read the wiki page he was actually a remarkable man so maybe I should not bear grudges and respect The Villa like the other teams ?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Ellis
even more irrational is my respect for Mr Wenger - Houston, I have a problem ! |
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Quote ="Lord God Jose Mourinho"Nothing really. In fact, Tottenham have been pretty generous to us in my time.
On reflection, I'd say that my dislike of Tottenham is actually about 10% of my dislike of Liverpool.'"
strangely enough, although I love seeing The Gooners getting well and truly stuffed the team I really don't like is Villa ! I think it goes back to the time of Doug Ellis who always came over as a smarmy git ! a totally irrational reason to dislike a team when you think of it ?
he was knighted for his services to charity recently and if you read the wiki page he was actually a remarkable man so maybe I should not bear grudges and respect The Villa like the other teams ?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Ellis
even more irrational is my respect for Mr Wenger - Houston, I have a problem ! | |
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Quote ="sanjunien"strangely enough, although I love seeing The Gooners getting well and truly stuffed the team I really don't like is Villa ! I think it goes back to the time of Doug Ellis who always came over as a smarmy git ! a totally irrational reason to dislike a team when you think of it ?
he was knighted for his services to charity recently and if you read the wiki page he was actually a remarkable man so maybe I should not bear grudges and respect The Villa like the other teams ?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Ellis
even more irrational is my respect for Mr Wenger - Houston, I have a problem !'"
I think the modern Doug Ellis is Dave Whelan. I can't stand Dave Whelan, but that doesn't really transfer itself onto Wigan like your dislike of Ellis crept onto Villa.
While I think every word that Dave Whelan has ever uttered about football is complete horse manure, I actually have massive respect for him. He's an ex-pro footballer who built up a multi-million pound business, and then went and managed to get Wigan Athletic promoted to the PL and has kept them there. I'm just staggered after writing that what an awesome life and series of careers he's had. I think his achievements have been amazing. But I think I'd rather listen to Stan Collymore talk about respect for women than listen to Whelan talk about football.
Wenger equally deserves huge respect. He's an excellent manager. But he's also deserving of derision for the way he whines about fouls against his players while being blind to his players butchering opponents. Pulis has been bad for this this last month, but it's been Wenger's standard way of operating for years. |
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Quote ="sanjunien"strangely enough, although I love seeing The Gooners getting well and truly stuffed the team I really don't like is Villa ! I think it goes back to the time of Doug Ellis who always came over as a smarmy git ! a totally irrational reason to dislike a team when you think of it ?
he was knighted for his services to charity recently and if you read the wiki page he was actually a remarkable man so maybe I should not bear grudges and respect The Villa like the other teams ?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Ellis
even more irrational is my respect for Mr Wenger - Houston, I have a problem !'"
I think the modern Doug Ellis is Dave Whelan. I can't stand Dave Whelan, but that doesn't really transfer itself onto Wigan like your dislike of Ellis crept onto Villa.
While I think every word that Dave Whelan has ever uttered about football is complete horse manure, I actually have massive respect for him. He's an ex-pro footballer who built up a multi-million pound business, and then went and managed to get Wigan Athletic promoted to the PL and has kept them there. I'm just staggered after writing that what an awesome life and series of careers he's had. I think his achievements have been amazing. But I think I'd rather listen to Stan Collymore talk about respect for women than listen to Whelan talk about football.
Wenger equally deserves huge respect. He's an excellent manager. But he's also deserving of derision for the way he whines about fouls against his players while being blind to his players butchering opponents. Pulis has been bad for this this last month, but it's been Wenger's standard way of operating for years. | |
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| Quote ="Durham Giant"After reading LGJM and RBs posts today i now understand them.
I thought they were just one eyed fans of their own team yet their comments on Bales dive are hilarious.
They both think it was |OK for him to dive as he was preparing for contact.
If you are preparing for contact you check your run, jump up to avoid the tackle dont do something you would see tom Daley doing.
The pair of you are really clueless clowns. Your lengthy posts trying to explain or theorise on football related incidents is hilarious. You had no credibility after your posts on Suarez and on Terry and clearly show you have no credibility on any other football related incidents.
If Mourinho is the the special one it is clear both of you two are special in a different way.'"
It really isn't hard to grasp. I remember when we played Birmingham a few years back, David Ngog won us a penalty by 'diving'. He was running in the box, a defender was coming across, the defender slid and clearly got in Ngog's way, Ngog got to the ball, touched it forward then 'dove' over as though there was contact. There wasn't contact, but he wasn't getting to the ball because he would have been clattered by Carsley (I think it was Carsley), if Ngog planted his foot there was a good chance Carsley's outstretched boot would have gone right through it. It looked awful on Ngog's part, he wasn't touched but acted like he did, but if he didn't avoid the contact he would have been fouled and possibly injured. The bad moment in it all was Carsley's challenge which was rightly penalised, people seem to forget that.
I wasn't actually talking about Bale's situation precisely when saying contact isn't always required, but I can see why some players go down without contact. |
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still can't decide on the Bale incident but the question I would ask is - is diving considered as cheating or just gamesmanship ? I reckon the reason Rogers is defending his man is because he feels it's a part of he game nowadays and although it is wrong to try to deceive the officials it's fair-game to try to win by any means and if you get caught then so be it
We all recall many years ago the 'Hand of God ' incident but was that cheating or gamesmanship ? We also saw a few days ago the great Miroslav Close scoring with his hand for Lazio at Napoli but owning up to the ref after scoring that he actually pushed the ball in with his hand with the ref changing his decision and disallowing the goal - his team went on to lose that game but Maradonnas effort won them the game so who was right and who was wrong ?
Was Ireland robbed of a World Cup spot beacause of Henrys' cheating or gamesmanship ?
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| Quote ="Lord God Jose Mourinho"But the problem is in the huge grey area over fouls. If a defender impedes an attacker just enough to cause his team mate to make a clearance that is still a foul. But good luck finding refs that are strong enough to make that decision. They need the player to go down to force them to actually make a decision.
An honest striker is one that defenders will love. They'll just hang all over him all game, knowing that as long as they don't actually cause him to go to ground they'll be able to foul all the time and get away with it. Just look at the ludicrous situation over free kicks into the penalty area. If an attacker looks at a defender the wrong way the refs will instantly give a free kick against him. At the same time if a defender picks up an attacker and carries him into the stand the referee will fail to see anything wrong.
Then there's the issue of players going into challenges as though they are going to clatter into someone and then pulling out at the last minute. That's a foul according to the rules.
Managers then cause more problems with their mind games. Pulis has been on a roll over diving and bad tackles against his side. Don't think he was too bothered by Crouch's hand ball before he scored against Citeh though, and he's quick to defend his players after they've hospitalised another player.
'"
Think you've hit the nail on the head there with how complex it is. Rightly or wrongly, it appears to me though that, as a society, we've decided that diving to gain a penalty is worse than, say, a defender tugging at a shirt i.e. that it's against the spirit of the game and sportsmanship. Technically they may be the same offence but over here, in the UK, that kind of niggle seems to be accepted as what we feel is okay as fans. I guess this is where the splits occur. When you're own player decides to dive it can force some fans to back him i.e. usually the ones for whom their club is bigger than the game (why would they defend it otherwise?). The social contract between players who take part is that you expect there to be a bit of niggle but not complete abandonment of all integrity to win. Some players push the latter and feel that's all that matters, but we have already decided as fans that we don't want those sort of shenanigans in our game. We don't want win at any cost anymore and that has to be a good thing. |
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| Quote ="Roddy B"It really isn't hard to grasp. I remember when we played Birmingham a few years back, David Ngog won us a penalty by 'diving'. He was running in the box, a defender was coming across, the defender slid and clearly got in Ngog's way, Ngog got to the ball, touched it forward then 'dove' over as though there was contact. There wasn't contact, but he wasn't getting to the ball because he would have been clattered by Carsley (I think it was Carsley), if Ngog planted his foot there was a good chance Carsley's outstretched boot would have gone right through it. It looked awful on Ngog's part, he wasn't touched but acted like he did, but if he didn't avoid the contact he would have been fouled and possibly injured. The bad moment in it all was Carsley's challenge which was rightly penalised, people seem to forget that.
I wasn't actually talking about Bale's situation precisely when saying contact isn't always required, but I can see why some players go down without contact.'"
I don't think most people would argue with that. The goalie commits himself into possibly making a foul so that's his Russian roulette. What we appear to be talking about is when a player is fabricating something out of nothing. It's deceitful and I'm not so naive as to say that we can outlaw it because we can't. However, it does start with the players and the players will only adapt their own behaviour when they are pressured into changing. That pressure comes from other players, managers, FIFA and the fans. If teams booed their own players when they do it, I'm pretty sure it'd stop tomorrow, but they don't. So it continues. When you get players of the quality of Steven Gerrard realising it's a valid tactical choice then you know you've got a problem. |
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So, Wills and Kate have opened England's new training facility, today.
It's a good job a certain pair of central defenders weren't present, with their sexual proclivities, or Kate would've needed more hands, than an octopus has tentacles.
However, was Rooney in the background, to try and balance the sex-pest equilibrium?
Mind you, with Rooney's reputation, he'd be more likely to ask Kate for her mother-in-law's phone number.
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| Vilification of Suarez is wrong according to Rodgers.
Siege mentality continues  |
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Rogers does have some points.
The problem is that after he spends the week talking about Suarez not getting the decisions he merits, Suarez then throws himself down to the ground in a ridiculous manner to try and get a pen.
Suarez has been backed to the hilt by two LFC managers. And then he's gone and screwed them over straight away by creating more stupid stories. Dalglish stood up for him totally over the Evra incident. Then Suarez goes and refuses to shake Evra's hand when it was offered to him. Rogers complains bitterly that Suarez doesn't get the decisions, Suarez is then caught in a ridiculous tumble.
Rogers just needs to STFU over this right now because it's a battle he just can't win.
Has Welbeck got significantly less negative reaction to dives that have lead to pens? IMO yes, definitely. But it's not something you can really argue about this week when you've just been busted for it.
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Hopefully Brandon Rogers career trajectory mirrors those other "manager of the moment" bosses Owen Coyle and Phil Brown.
Paul Lambert's doing great at Villa as well, isn't he?
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| Quote ="Lord God Jose Mourinho"
Paul Lambert's doing great at Villa as well, isn't he?'"
like so many managers since the 60s Lambert shouldn't have left Norwich - AV isn't promotion or an advancement in his career path as it stands but merely a better paycheck
speaking of past Canaries bosses, don't know if the sad passing of John Bond has been announced on this forum - he was a fair footballer in his own right at WHU alongside some good players in the 60s and his appointment at Carrow Road following the departure of Ron Saunders (to AV ?) was a great time to be in East Anglia - the boys played some nice football, real ' or bust' stuff which entertained the fans with the likes of Ted McDougall & Phil Boyer, Paddon, Osgood, Channon and other legends - great times when football was fun
RIP John Bond - thanks for the memories   |
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"Ian Arnfield, who runs the Bredbury Blues"
"His comments were echoed by London-based Blue Paul Sarahs"
What? No Moss Side and Wythenshawe?!
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"Ian Arnfield, who runs the Bredbury Blues"
"His comments were echoed by London-based Blue Paul Sarahs"
What? No Moss Side and Wythenshawe?!
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Ongoing poll on F365:
What's worse?
Diving 19%
Stamping on someone's chest 35%
Tony Pulis 46%
I voted for Pulis too.
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| Quote ="flipper"www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/barcelona/9597078/Barcelona-deny-link-to-banned-doctor-Luis-Garcia-del-Moral-who-worked-with-Lance-Armstrong-and-US-Postal.html'"
Quote ="UEFA"If Barcelona offer a vague denial, that is more than good enough for us to close the book on this for good.'" |
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| Quote ="flipper" '"
Quote ="Brendon Rogers"See, Suarez wasn't even diving after all.'" |
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Comoli is about to get the Director of Football job at West Brom. What a fall from grace for him. But more importantly what on earth are West Brom hoping to achieve with that move? They presumably don't have £200m for his to waste on average players, so what good can he do for them? They seem to be such a well run club.
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[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/feedarticle/10480630Coach quits after one day[/url
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I can understand why Chang would be peed off. When you're blowing nearly £10m on that donkey Borini that extra £300,000 is too much to take.
Seriously though, just like his initial transfer rumours were supposedly fake, so too could this be. It's not like he can be trusted when he set himself out from the start as a hoaxster.
And if it is all true, so what? It's not like his "threats" particularly amounted to much. They were just retarded BS trying to intimidate him. It's not like the transfer speculation business is anything more of a joke now than it was before. How many millions of times has a footballer supposedly been reported by an estate agent as looking at houses in the area?
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I can understand why Chang would be peed off. When you're blowing nearly £10m on that donkey Borini that extra £300,000 is too much to take.
Seriously though, just like his initial transfer rumours were supposedly fake, so too could this be. It's not like he can be trusted when he set himself out from the start as a hoaxster.
And if it is all true, so what? It's not like his "threats" particularly amounted to much. They were just retarded BS trying to intimidate him. It's not like the transfer speculation business is anything more of a joke now than it was before. How many millions of times has a footballer supposedly been reported by an estate agent as looking at houses in the area?
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How many sitters will Cleverley miss tonight? I will go for 3.
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"If you are prepared to win at all costs, the elixir of victory is surely diluted"
[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/the-last-word-footballers-who-dive-are-enacting-the-fall-of-man-8209771.htmlThe Last Word: Footballers who dive are enacting the fall of man[/url
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