When you can show me Amors from the 2013 RLWC I'll gladly do a comparison.

He chose not to play for Ireland so he could have an op and be ready for the start of Super League.

Must. Try. Harder.

A few days ago I mentioned that I thought Wire's pack would be weaker in 2014 following the losses of Carvell, Cooper and Morley. I was asked why I thought that.

Reason is the strength in depth of the Wire squad and their forwards in particular.
In squad shirt number order, below Currie who is 17 there comes :-
Rhys Evans at 18, Anthony England, 19, Gaz O'Brien 20, Glen Riley 21, Brad Dwyer 22, James Laithwaite 23 and Kevin Penny at 24 which is their last number.
Of those seven players England, Glen Riley, Dwyer and Laithwaite are forwards with a total of 29 Super League games between them.

Compare that to Wigan's squad numbers following 17 who is Dom Crosby, there is Sam Powell at 19, Greg Burke, Andy Powell, Eddy Pettybourne, Dan Sarginson, Tony Clubb and John Bateman. Of those seven only Sam Powell & Sarginson are not forwards. Those five Wigan forwards have a total of 313 first grade games between them compared to Wire's lads 29.

I don't know how many games Morley, Carvell & Cooper have between them but it must be quite a few hundred. That's why the lads coming into the first team at Wire have nowhere near the experience of their predecessors, nor are they anywhere near the experience of the Wigan forwards.
That's why when the thread is about Power Packs I'm not sure Wire will have one.

Few holes in using shirt numbers argument though isn't there?

For example we would need to move one of the Wigan players into shirt number 11 to compare like for like, lets move Clubb. That's 153 (majority of which weren't in the forwards) of the 313 appearances gone. Also Wigan in the shirts 14 to 17 have a player primarily appearing at centre so we'll replace him with Pettybourne which takes away another 103 appearances putting the total now down to 57.

You are also missing Ben Evans from the Warrington squad who made 17 Super League appearances last year so we're now comparing 46 for Warrington and 57 for Wigan.

The above figures also take no account of the number of Championship games that the respective players have made, I'd guess the Warrington lads have well over 100 games at Championship level against probably about 50 for Wigan's equivalent being about 50 or so (including Hopkins games for Leigh).

If there are question marks about Warrington's pack due to the perceived lack of experience after the first choice 6 forwards and four subs then I'd suggest you should have similar question marks about every pack in Super League.

I'll list the Warrington pack again and ask again (as the above pretty much destroys your original reasoning) why are there question marks particularly against Warrington's pack?

Hill, Higham, Asotasi, Waterhouse, Westwood, Grix - Wood, Monaghan, Harrison, Currie

I think this is a stupid comparison anyway but, are you seriously going to suggest because Pettybourne doesn't have any super league games he is an inexperienced player?

Is warrington starting pack strong yes, get two injured props and not so much. Asotasi can't remember the last time he had a full season and not picked up a serious injury, looked as lazy as the line waiting for their job seekers allowance last season. Waterhouse i think he is good but didn't your fans slating him a lot last season? Ben Harrison finally over his injuries?

I don't think warrington biggest problem was losing Morley and carvel i can't believe they let McCarthy and Cooper go they always had big games against wigan in defense. The whole game plan of try and hit the ground as soon as contact to catch the other team going backwards is going to change this season.

I think the poster was correct that you have a skinny forward pack this season compared to previous seasons, also the majority of them are the wrong side of 30, with injuries i think warrington will struggle against the better sides in super league. as seen below more than enough experience and only 3 players out of the whole pack haven't won silverware. one player over 30 majority aren't even close to being 30.

Wigans pack this season.

8.scott taylor (22 years old)
9.McIlorum (26 years old)
10.Flower (27 years old)
11.Farrell (23 years old)
12.Bateman/Clubb (20 years old/ 26 years old)
13.o'loughlin (31 years old)

This is where shirt number really count for nothing because new signings at wigan never get starting numbers if there is somebody already playing in the same position.

14.Pettybourne (100+ NRL appearances)
15.Gil Dudson (34 appearances)
16.Clubb/bateman (150+ appearances)
17.Jack Hughes (52 appearances)
18.Dominic Crosby( 34 appearances) he will filter in and out.

the rest you can put in any order.
Sam hopkins
Rhodri Lloyd
Lauaki if he comes back

The comparison was between the respective squads and especially Wire's following number 17 from where you have to draw players when injuries occur.
I was asked why I thought Wire wouldn't have a power pack, the reason is because they lack SL/First Grade experience from squad number 18 down the list compared to other top end clubs

One of the problems pre season is that you can't just go on last years evidence. Players are one year older and will either improve or deteriorate and not always depending on age. Number of apprearances mean nothing as it's what a player does with that experience that counts. Also, let's not forget that both Warrington and Wigan have damn good coaches, probabaly the best in Super League. I'm sure that whatever team Tony Smith puts out will be competetive, regardless of who is in the pack.

The folly of writing teams off before the season has even started was amply illustrated by Wigan last season. People put forward all sorts of arguements as to why we wouldn't even come in the top half and were then made to look pretty stupid.

However, as many oppostion fans have already pointed out Wigan seem to have the strongest team ethic in the competition. You just can't account for that when you are comparing squad strength. I think that it is this that will carry Wigan through, Leeds also have it and it's what Saints, Warrington and Huddersfield need to acquire.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Pettybournes stats compare very favourably with Chris Hill. www.rlwc2013.com/player/christopher-hill/323 www.rlwc2013.com/player/eddy-pettybourne/233 If that's his level of performance in 2014 he'll go well.'" Haven't read the stats but one of the above was playing for Leigh in the Championship 2 seasons ago......... the other has had 6 years in the NRL? there is a long post highlighting Wires apparent lack of experience in our pack - while another Highlights the fact we still have some over 30's But the fact Rogues has chosen to compare an inexperienced forward with a seasoned NRL player despite their similar ages, just proves that experience can be gained very quickly, Hill didn't look out of place alongside the vastly experienced Morley and Carvell and quickly eclipsed challenge cup winning forward Mike Cooper. It's just the unknown.... Anthony England is a bit of gamble he could easily be another Hill, but he has had a spell with Cas and i don't know how that went..... Glen Riley is highly thought of but I see the early Mike cooper in him he doesn't look mobile or athletic but he is a big unit, they both are very big young men. If they land like Chris Hill did then we'll be a match for any pack, inexperienced or the wrong side of 30, take your pick

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Pettybournes stats compare very favourably with Chris Hill. www.rlwc2013.com/player/christopher-hill/323 www.rlwc2013.com/player/eddy-pettybourne/233 If that's his level of performance in 2014 he'll go well.'" Haven't read the stats but one of the above was playing for Leigh in the Championship 2 seasons ago......... the other has had 6 years in the NRL? there is a long post highlighting Wires apparent lack of experience in our pack - while another Highlights the fact we still have some over 30's But the fact Rogues has chosen to compare an inexperienced forward with a seasoned NRL player despite their similar ages, just proves that experience can be gained very quickly, Hill didn't look out of place alongside the vastly experienced Morley and Carvell and quickly eclipsed challenge cup winning forward Mike Cooper. It's just the unknown.... Anthony England is a bit of gamble he could easily be another Hill, but he has had a spell with Cas and i don't know how that went..... Glen Riley is highly thought of but I see the early Mike cooper in him he doesn't look mobile or athletic but he is a big unit, they both are very big young men. If they land like Chris Hill did then we'll be a match for any pack, inexperienced or the wrong side of 30, take your pick

I think you have misconstrued Rogues point, He was using hill as a bench mark. Also i never said you lacked experience in the starting pack what i said is you don't have a lot of experience outside of it and the age of the starting pack will work against that. I would say chris hill is far from inexperienced how many finals has he played in now? Also at that age a lot of the problems younger players have gone.

your starting pack will do the goods again but if injuries occur i wouldn't worry about the bench unlike previous seasons, but hey injuries can happen to 20 years olds as well. First time in about 5 years i am really excited for super league purely because i have no idea how the top 8 teams will settle.

Anyone who actually watches the NRL weekly, will tell you that Pettybourne is a pudding. Shocking signing

Regards

King James

Cheers

i reckon you may make it to 20 posts before being banned clearly a troll.

Warm Regards,
Grown ups

Wow. All he's done so far is express his opinion. Disagreeing with the majority doesn't make you a troll. There are too few contrary views on here as it is.

look at the post count and he was blabbing off about how nobody likes rugby league in Britain on the virtual terrace the other day so no its not just a different opinion.

he hardly played any NRL for the west tigers and whilst at the bunnies Maguire said numerous amount of times he wanted to keep him.

Not what Waney thinks:



[urlhttp://www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-warriors/bourne-in-the-usa-has-made-an-impact-1-6364760[/url

Quote ="tank123" RL is changing and the days of impact props is over.'" Interesting article here with regards to Shaun Wane and his view on the supposed dying art of the impact prop. m.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-war ... -1-6364760

Quote ="tank123" RL is changing and the days of impact props is over.'" Interesting article here with regards to Shaun Wane and his view on the supposed dying art of the impact prop. m.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-war ... -1-6364760

I think he will play at least 35-40 minutes a game and will have a high work rate. in my opinion we have 3 senior props going in to the new season, Taylor, flower and pettybourne we need a 4th.

I watched the NRL Grand Final the other day, George Rose (18.5 stone impact prop) had a pretty good game and has been signed by Melbourne. With substitutions reduced from 12 to 10, impact props were bound to become less common, but I still think can they have a place in the game. Flower is easily capable of doing 50mins (either as 25,25 or 20,20,10) so 2x15min stints from Pettybourne would suffice as long as he's effective in that time and is mobile enough to do his defensive duties

I expect Crosby and Dudson to make a real impact this year.

Crosby with another off season behind him could be in my opinion our "bolter" for the season and push for England Knights if he stays fit. He is naturally a very big aggressive lad who is only going to improve over the next 5 years. I have see few "junior" Props run with the power and be as damaging as he has shown to be so far.

Dudson struggled at times last year but he is relatively new to the game and again will have benefited from the off season.

We have - he's called Dom Crosby. Scott Taylor and Dom Crosby are two of three outstanding young props in Super League (Walmsley is the other). Good menough to be selected for the England Knights alongside Taylor. What makes Taylor a "senior" and Dom not?

I like Crosby don't get me wrong i actually like Dudson more even tho he had a poor season last season. But Crosby in my opinion is 3-4 years away from being that senior prop the one who you can rely on to make 7+ meters every time he takes the ball in or carry 3 players with him in a drive. he hasn't fully filled out yet which is only reasonable considering he is only 22.

Sorry but I disagree. He is a really big unit as they say, and in addition to his obvious attributes he is also incredibly alert. He really concentrates around the ruck area and often comes up with an interception or drops on a loose ball, when others are not paying attention. As for not being reliable - His performances in the playoffs and GF suggest otherwise.

I'm more than happy with Flower/Crosby/Taylor/Pettybourne with Dudson definately needing to improve to make the 17.

Crosby and Taylor both played for England Knights v Samoa in October, both having good games.

It's interesting to see Wanes comments regarding Pettybourne and how he intends to use him. We do know that if required he can play 50/60 minutes as he did in the World Cup.

I just don't think crosby has that physical presence you would expect from senior props just yet. Kind of like harrison hansen 5-6 years ago, could tell he was made to play rugby and was a good player but was just slightly light in contact some times and he filled out tremendously in the last 4-5 years.

Agree with what most have said, Crosby would start for me along with Flower going off last season's form. He showed glimpses of real class last season, particularly in the big games!