Which ever way you look at it RL hasn't made the significant increases on and off the pitch that it needs to.

Were defiantly not any closer to a test series win than we were before and many are arguing were actually further behind. The fitness levels of the players have greatly increased and we have a better marketed comp but have the skill levels increased as much as they should have done? Have we yet to produce a GB player to rival Hanley, Edwards, Offiah or Robinson? Not imo

The most worrying aspect should be when we look at the gains other sports have made in the past ten years.

Football has increased its popularity world wide and now easily reaches homes in Asia and the middle east. The players it’s producing like Kaka, Ronaldo, Rooney, Gerrard, Torres etc are just as good if not better than the players that have come before them. The game has risen to new levels in the past decade.

Rugby union sadly for us tho has made the greatest advancement in the past decade. Players are now as equally as fit as those in RL and some are just as skill full. It’s had the vision to look at sports such as RL, football and the NFL and use the best out of each bit to improve with new coaches, set ups, playoffs, marketing, organisations and international setups.

It’s got a very strong international game where games are close and not as predictable as say England vs Aus in RL. There is no doubt that RU is a much more skill full, faster and popular game than it was a decade ago and what’s really scary is it still got a long, long way to go as well. RU in another ten years time will, imo, be as far away from what we see today as today’s game is away from the amateur set up a few years back. Can we say the same about RL?

If RL doesn’t soon start to make significant advances it may well be far too late for it to make the major impact that it deserves.

boring to watch these days, and ive watched since bostons era.

i know they have brought in rules to cut out dirty play and safeguard players, but thats whats missing in my opinion.

there used to be nothing like a good punch up to get the crowd and team fired up ......hardly ever see it these days.

Did you know there are less than 80 professional rugby union players in Australia? Did you also know that there is no national rugby union league competition in Australia?

Whats your point?

They have a super 14 team which included 5 NZ teams and 5 SA teams? RL has one comp with 15 aussie teams and 1 NZ team maybe if it was spread around a little we may not have such a weak international game.

The super 14 league gives way to a tri nations comp which is far, far more competitive than than any RL international comp.

Are you honestly trying to say that RU hasn’t made larger strides over the past 10 years than RL?

I agree.

Nobody likes cheap shots but you really cannot beat a good scrap. The Saints v Leeds game at the start of the year was a good example of a game that made the hairs on the back of your neck because of the tension the scraps and big hits caused.

A good scrap makes it spicey and games are miles better when there has been a scrap in them as it raises the team and the intensity. See GB v Aus after Mason eathered Fielden, that game started off dull as dish water and after that fight it galvonised the team and they went on to win. Its referees spoiling it, its worse in the NRL though, Moi moi and Dane Laurie were going at each other hell for leather but nothing dirty just big hits and that and the referee kept getting involved teling them to pack it in WTF?

Don't get me started on refs!

I was just mentioning the number of players playing the game in Australia. RU isn't quite in the brilliant state that you're suggesting that's all. It's had a stronger international game than ours for years.



I don't really want to turn this into a discussion about RU but it depends on what you mean by larger strides. Isn't the professional club scene dying out in Wales and Scotland? Aren't English RU clubs struggling to keep hold of their players because of the higher spending power of the French RU? ([url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/dec/09/rugby-premiership-salary-capRU and the salary cap[/url). Has their club and grass roots scene grown as much as Super League over the past ten years? How many new clubs have sprung up during that time? Hasn't our Summer Conference been a success? Would that have happened without Super League?

From what I see the best bits of their growth have come from them having more countries playing the game e.g. the European Cup thing. I don't think you can point at Super League and say it's not grown as much as the British RU club scene. We've done exceptionally well with the resources we have. If Super League had as much money in it as RU I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest we'd have done a lot more. Look at our club games attendances compared to what they were. Look at the new grounds we've got. Look at our Grand Final. There's a lot to be very proud of about our sport and this constant knocking of the sport is traditional in RL even when we do make great progress e.g. the snipes towards Celtic, Harlequins RL and Catalan Dragons.

Totally agree.

That's not really relevant to the point that was being made though, was it? I could quite easily point to the fact that 2 weeks ago, over 40,000 people turned out to a meaningless RU international... in the North West of England. Is that indicative of RU making the greatest advancement relative to other sports? Possibly. Not that I'm happy with that, at all.

Edited for accuracy

Whilst I agree with most of your points I think the one biggest thing that the Union world has done is to virtually takeover the term "Rugby" in so much that it is almost a patented term for them these days.
Nowadays when anybody be it the media or the public ringing in to national talk shows (eg Talksport) refer to Rugby do they distinguish it by using the Union or League monikers.

The RL world has failed to do anything about this.

Astonishing.

That would be the RU club scene that sees Zurich premiership average attendances exceeding SL, would it?

There are some truly ludicrous posts on this thread from Saints/pro-CC people.

If anyone reading this thread has any doubt about which side of the debate is sensible and rational, just consider for a moment the following ridiculous claims made by pro-CC people in a desperate bid to convince us (I wonder at times if they're desperately trying to convince THEMSELVES

):

1. The Saints 1996 double-winning squad largely consisted of players who were "garbage" and wouldn't now get a game in NL1.

2. Paul Wellens was/is a better player than Jonathan Davies was. (Some of this stuff is actually difficult to type, its just SO wrong!

)

3. Jason Robinson only looked good against semi-pro defences.

4. Vila Matautia - fourth choice Saints centre in 1996 - proves that squads were much weaker back then compared with today.

5. SL is in great shape and doing better than club RU in Britain.

6. We should be looking forward to the Four Nations, England is closer to the Aussies now than the early-mid 90s.

This is just a selection, anyone who wants to do some digging will find other bizarre arguments being advanced by the desperate Saints supporting pro-CC camp.

It was hilarious yesterday on Sky.

Eddie: "It's sad to see a young man aged 22 leaving our code"

Steve: "Something must be done......."

Barrie Mac: "It's the Salary Cap"

He then obviously got a dig from someone.

"er it evens up the competition............"


Utter shambles.

Andy Greg was poor as he turned his back to pass

If you take the twelve teams who were in SL last year, they are all playing better rugby than last year except Leeds, Bulls and Wigan. If you mean that SL is worse because other teams have improved, then fine. In fact, the salary cap bitterness is misleading, because you have probably assembled the most expensive team in SL, because you buy in. Not many other teams could have bought Barrett, Fielden, Gleeson, Tim Smith. The only way the Salary Cap has hindered you is that you don't have all the other stars playing in your reserves and have to play teams that can put out good home grown squads.

Your season this year is nothing to do with the salary cap. The best purchases this year were Mick Potter, Nathan Brown and Tony Smith. There's a clue there.

Another self-righteous pro CC muppet who misunderstands the points being made.

what I do undetstand is that Wakey have no money and are skint. We couldn't afford any of your players and are 6th place. It is nothing to do with money. The so-called lesser teams are all playing better rugby, which is again nothing to do with the salary cap. The salary cap is just as much of a risk to us as our limited income limits our ability to pay wages, but the finances of the clubs seem to be in better shape than before it, because no club seems at risk of going bust.

There is better quality of rugby being played this year. I accept that a Wigan fan wouldn't see that, as it has mostly been played at places other than JJB. If you were top, I don't think you would be bleating, and you are 10th for reasons other than salary cap, namely that teams with less expensive players than yours have beaten you.

Nobody is talking about a Wigan POV. This 'better rugby' that clubs are playing is sh*te compared to the rugby that was being played pre SC and is why GB/England are going backwards.

Didn't know that!

Don't confuse the poor lad with facts.

Average growth in attendances for the two leagues over the past six or seven years has been near enough the same, something like 6.5% for Super League and 7% for the RU Premiership. Their average attendance figure is approximately 1,000 per game higher. I don't know what's happened to the average attendance figures for the Welsh or Scottish leagues.

I'd have thought it would have been much higher what with the nationwide media coverage and all.

We didn't buy Barrett or Tim Smith.

Add that to a six nations campaign played in Rome, Cardiff, London, Paris and Edinburgh and Dublin with regular attendances we could only dream of for international games they are streets ahead of us in every aspect.

Also add the televised TWO European cups that have also been created in the past ten years and it’s sickening to even think we come close to RU.

RL is a quality game run by Muppets like Hetherington & Hood who don’t have on fifth of the vision Maurice Lindsey had for SL back in 1992.

Instead of listening to him he’s hounded out by supporters or Wakey and Castleford etc who can’t see that for the good of the game they would have had to join. We’d be in far, far stronger position now imo if necessary cuts like that would have been made at the start.

SL has a been a wasted opportunity imo……