Agreed. Hopefully much of this will come to pass.

I also concur about Andy Farrell. I think people have laid off him a little because he was once a favourite son and all that, but it's time we accepted that he's not one of us any more. I have no sympathy with him and will be disappointed if he turns up back in RL after he gets sacked. Firstly because, as you say, he was the one who persuaded Sam to leave, but secondly because I'm not sure what's going on inside his head, if anything. This idea that you can parachute RL players into international RU and they'll win pots for you is far, far too simplistic an approach for professional sport. Stevo made this point a few years ago; that it's quite ludicrous that so many of these lads seem to have England caps built into their contracts. Okay, it will secure the signatures for you, but how can it possibly work in practical terms?

The RU still seem completely intoxicated by the experience they had with Jason Robinson, without apparently realising that his main asset was broken field running, which is easily transferrable to either code. Surely - after the expensive failures of Henry Paul, Iestyn Harris, Karl Pryce, Chev Walker, Kyle Eastmond, Andy Farrell himself, and now Sam Burgess, it's time they started doing some real diligence on the actual skills these players possess and worked out whether they can genuinely be used in a different sport. (As you say, the very fact that Mike Ford apparently shares this shortsightedness and yet is head coach at a top RU club speaks absolute volumes).

And this applies both ways. When the main traffic was RU to RL, the converts had to prove they were worthy of international recognition, and quite a few of them didn't.

I remember reading a column by one of the English players (I forget who) in one of the papers a few years ago. He was talking about training at Bath. Apparently if they had a bad session one of the punishments was to make them play RL for twenty minutes, which absolutely knackered them.

It's easy to see that in Union there is a great deal of respect for League players. They know that someone like Burgess is a hugely talented, high performing individual. He has been given a free ride by the England coaching team on the back of his accomplishments at the Rabbitohs. I think there is a belief that he is better than your average Union player. And I think that is true.

However, these things take time. Burgess would be a quality back rower in Union after a few years learning the game, no danger. Just as Joel Tomkins would be too. Joel saw sense and came back to the game he knows best. Let's hope that Sam does too, because a couple of years learning the dark arts of Union forward play could be a waste of time. By that time England RU may have moved on.

Lancaster has made 9 changes for their last match, virtually giving everyone a game and what's the BBC headline? "Sam Burgess out of England squad".

Well, there's nothing else much to talk about for the game is there?
What's really annoying is that there's bgr-all mention of the only rugby game that really matters on Saturday either. And look at the radio schedule: we start on 5LiveExtra in favour of the Oz/Taffy game, then get bumped over to the main channel (if we're lucky) at half time. I know the RFU have done their best to get in the way and the RFL are trying to pretend nothing else is happening, but FFS, how much cr*p do we have to take?

The fact that it's called the 'Rugby World Cup' is enough for me, dropped the Union taking ownership of the name 'Rugby' arrogantly, totally disregarding that there's another code of rugby. I bet it's also trademarked, otherwise the RFL should just call our next world cup the 'Rugby World Cup'.

Are you sure you're not getting mixed up with Lee Mossop?

The thing most likely to keep Burgess in RU is pride - he's very self confident and has talked a good game since going to RU, and he will be stinging about the treatment he's received in the press. Most people would walk away, but people like Burgess will assume its just a case of working harder and they'll get there.

The sad thing is he really is the archetypal RL forward, and had he stayed in the NRL would have gone on to be one of the greats. As it is he'll probably work his off and at best get back into the England RU side as just another forward. He will simply never be as dominant in RU as he can be in RL. Even if he plays for England again I bet in twenty years the only thing RU fans will remember him for is failing as a centre. Meanwhile RL fans don't get to see a great player in our game. The whole thing is a mess and entirely predictable. The only positive is if it discourages poaching by RU.

As an aside I think the guaranteed caps and central RU funding has gone. IIRC Bath signed Burgess without any help, although I wouldn't be surprised if he got the nod and wink from Farrell and possibly Lancaster before he jumped ship.

From what happened to Burgess hopefully no more top RL players will jump ship .

I think this is a certainty now. After what has happened to Sam, being lambasted in the media and taking the blame for the dross served up this should be a big red danger signal to other RL players. Not every move is a fairy tale like Robinson, Ashton and Farrell etc.

Sam Burgess was the worlds most recognised RL player when he left after that epic NRL Grand Final and hopefully the next time Yawnion are desperate for a bit of class they should try and find one from their own code for a change.

Liam Forsyth has signed for Bath, that was the reason he was left out of the U19's Grand Final.

That is very disappointing.
I have only seen him on Wigan TV and he has looked a really good prospect. The Bath set up looks exceptionally good and wouldn't be surprised to see other top youngsters attracted down there.
He will have company with Sarginson next season. I wonder if Forsyth was the U19 lad who bunked up recently with Sarginson to stop him going stair crazy?
Rogues is he a St Helens lad? Did we pick him up from Saints? What is your opinion of the lad?

Good post. Hopefully having seen how badly one of the best RL forwards of his generation has been treated by the RU "establishment" and press, other potential converts from the superior code will be given pause for thought. I also suspect that the blood letting which will undoubtedly begin after the final whistle on Saturday night, will leave RU a lot more sceptical about recruiting from RL.

They will because money talks and Union has enough to throw around.

I just can't for the life of me think why they went for a guy with the physical attributes and skills of Sam Burgess because he's league through and through.

If I were them I'd be targeting big, skilful back with good pace who can exploit what little space there is. Guys like Ryan Hall, Joe Burgess and Kallum Watkins would settle comfortably.

I pray they don't mind.

I heard about this a while back. Supposedly the youth team were told to bring an overnight bag etc to training, as a bonding session the team camped on the training pitch. At the start of the night 'by surprise' Wane was walking his dogs nearby, he called over Forsyth and had a rant at him about being offered a deal with Bath. At this stage he hadn't signed for Bath but had received 2 offers, one from Wigan and a much better offer from Bath.

Without hearing Liam out Wane told him he'd been disrespectful and was done at Wigan. Liam returned to camp, picked up his belongings and left. The offer from Wigan was withdrawn leaving Liam no other option but to sign for Bath.

Sam Burgess, won the GF and MOM in the GF in the NRL, massive achievement. By his own comments he couldn't continue to play RL in the NRL as it would cut his career short due to the demands of the sport.
Additionally Sam was also quoted that he missed England and wanted to spend some more time in his home country.

So along comes Andy Faz (ironically after the Eng RL game at Wembley) offering him a massive deal (he's now the highest paid RU player in England) a chance to achieve something in another sport, play in front of 80k for his country and give his body a rest playing a much less demanding sport. It's a no-brainer.

Rumours of him going to Leeds or back to the NRL? Firstly he'd have to take a paycut, then he'd have the life-long notoriety of being a RL-RU convert flop with a national legacy of being a failure, and of course go back to the sport which game by game smashes up his body.

The RUWC criticism will blow over, it was too soon to put Sam into the team, maybe even the squad, if he wasn't such a name he would have been developed at a more considerate pace, similar to Henry Slade. Overtime Sam will rebuild his reputation in Union, be excepted as one of their own and probably once again feature as a 6/7/8 in an England RU shirt.

Sam is still a young man with lots of options, of course I'd love to see him back in league for many reasons, I'd cheer like made if he turned up, even as a spectator at the GF, but sadly I can't see it.

With the money, fame and care union players have over league, I can see many others making the switch.

But we should also consider the guy's personal pride. He went from having achieved the near impossible - a Brit earning hero status in Aus, to copping the blame for a bunch of English Rugby Union failures so inept that none of them would even get near the Wakefield first team. If he thought he was coming to Union for a rest, he's mistaken. Easy game maybe, but the surly Union scribes have made it clear that his name will always be mud as far as they are concerned. There seems to be a kind of schizophrenia in Union, where one half of the brain wants to see League stars parachuted in to save them, and the other half deeply resents these ex-League stars earning big money. Every time an opportunity comes along to 'prove' that League players aren't as good as everyone says, they take it.

Sam is surely enough of a realist to know that this will be his lot from now on if he stays in Union. Whatever he does, he won't be good enough. The Grand Final victory will soon fade in the memory and seem like it happened a long time ago. If he wants to keep revisiting that kind of glory and adulation - which has got to be what these guys thrive on - he must surely know that he has to return to League.

Documenting some of your comments:

Personal pride: surely staying and working to become a start in the sport would see Sam put an end to negative thoughts about him.
Achieving the impossible: He's ticked most boxes in RL, but few in RU. More to achieve in Union for him.
Name always be mud: Highly unlikely, the press are very fickle. He has the character to turn things around given time and development in the game.
Sam's lot in Union: Again, who's to say he'll never feature again in an England RU shirt? No one. Clive Woodward stated only this week that Sam can still be England's star man given time. Jury is certainly still out on his future.

This isn't considering the pay drop he'd have to take, label of being a RU failure and missed opportunity to rectify his name in England (let's face it the exposure RU has nationally is far more impressive than League) and missed opportunity to play for his country in front of 80K, could he do this in league? Sadly no.

I think League is a million times better than Union, but I'm aware of the realities of the codes. Sam could take up the remaining 2 years on his contract to correct things in RU earning a fortune (not forgetting the endorsements he'll achieve in union-Canterbury etc) and return to RL at 28/29.

I think the more likely scenario is that the drain of our resources will continue. It's easy to get your head around RU seeing, say, Joel's Wembley try and thinking "let's get him". Hopefully, Burgess' experience may give our star players pause for thought but the targeting of our players is taking place not just at the very top but across the entire spectrum of our League. What with all the talk about Sarginson (fringe international) to Bath along with this Forsyth kid (prospect) plus Josh Jones (solid SL standard) to Exeter Chiefs then Sinfield's (fading legend) move to Carnegie I can't see a single sector of our talent that isn't under their microscope, sadly.

For mine it also says bad things about the ability and commitment of RU to developing it's own talent. It is taking the easy route, to buy in talent from RL.

How many league players do they include in relation to their own RU players? The percentage is very low.

I heard it slightly differently in that Forsyth had already signed for Bath but not told Wigan. Somehow Wane found out and at that point told Forsyth to leave.

Would surely make more sense!

Hardly the lads fault if he was 'offered' a contract elsewhere so it makes little sense that Wane would go sick at that.

But with the huge number of clubs through out England and the cash they have, they shouldn't need to "convert" RL players (and for that matter coaches.

Made me giggle - but then I'm easily amused

Yesterday's man in their game, same in ours. They'll have signed another inside centre (aka prop) from us for the next world cup.