Agreed - if that series was an indicator of greatness then you can throw Pryce and Burrow in.

Burgess has to perform well in the 4-Nations to elevate his status to top international performer IMO, as do all of England's current players with the exception of Peacock and Morley.

I've not rubbished the double-winning 1996 squad, however, compared with the 2006 Saints squad it would struggle to compete.



Indeed.



Barrett is no Wigan legend. Fantastic, world class player? Yes! Wigan legend? Never in a million years!



Agreed.



Given his individual medal haul, MOS, player's player etc, he *should* be.



Indeed, Davies was one of the finest players I have seen and his raw talent surpasses that of Wellens (and many other playing in SL today) as he was immensly gifted, however, as outlined above, Wellens' achievements have earned him the right to be classed in the same bracket. You don't win that many awards by sheer fluke y'know.



Ah, slight misunderstanding here of which I am the culprit! When you wrote four nations, I incorrectly assumed you meant Ireland, Wales, Scotland and France. We will probably get mullered by the Aussies and NZ but, who knows eh?

Merely having the ability to lace up your boots without assistance is enough to be a Saints legend.

Gregory?
Betts?
Newlove?
Connolly?
Edwards?
Davies?
Farrell?
Robinson?
And quite a few more that were the equal of their Aussie counterparts & if not were'nt a million miles off like they are today!

Prior to 1996 GB usually won one in a series and lost two.
What it is now? One win in fourteen attempts?
The idea that the SL era with the SC is bringing in a better standard of player, or equal and that we are as competitive than before against the Aussies is total nonsense.

It has been and still is the RFL/SL's aim to lower the standard of SL and Rugby League. Hence their policy of levelling. They say it has been successful and it is successful. The standard is of a lower level now than it used to be and it is declining each year.
The rules are brought in by the SL Clubs and their Chairmen.

A very good player. But not in Hanley's league. For heaven's sake - he had to turn his back to pass to the left!



Don't recall Denis Betts ever breaking any Aussie pots.



Extremely talented (probably the most balanced centre I've seen) but underachieved in the big games.



For a centre, one try in god knows how many games is pretty poor.



I can't believe anyone would suggest Edwards. He's not even in Gregory's league.



Had one good game? Two?



Played well in his last series against Australia. Prior to that he underachieved.



Robinson was a great player against semi-pro defences. In his last couple of seasons he didn't carry anywhere near his early threat. Basically, he was worked out.



Errr ... no.

Christ almighty! This place is something else. You guys huddle together re-inforcing these crazy things-were-better-when-Wigan-destabalised-the-league(and bankrupted itself)-by-buying-all-the-best-players belief systems like something out of Waco or Jonestown. The reason the Aussies tonk us more often these days has bugger all to do with the salary cap.

Remember, WE were the first nation to introduce fully professional RL - not Australia. Back in the day GB were fielding players (the Wigan players) who did nothing but train all day against Aussies who were still semi-pro. Is it any wonder some of these guys looked good? Add to this the oft-forgotten fact that we used to play under the 5m rule, which helped keep the score down. Under the 10m rule even a good side can have 50 points put past it (look at the Kiwis).

And when the Aussies became fully pro they started to take the game far more seriously than us. Look at the difference in how they develop at grass roots level. It's a million times more professional than back in the 80s and early 90s. Today some of the leagues clubs (Brisbane's especially) can give premiership football acadamies a run for their money. Which means instead of producing a handful of good players each season (Lewis, Meninga, Grothe, Sterling, Kenny) they turn out two teams' worth. It's a numbers game and they've got all the numbers.

And what's this 'one win in fourteen attempts' craziness? Whilst GB hasn't looked like winning a series it has managed to steal the odd test from Australia - at home and in Australia. How do you account for this - given your opinions on the diminishing standard of SL?

As for this "SL's aim is to lower the standard of SL and Rugby League" - why the PHUCK would they want to do that? Your crazier than a chithouse rat. Seriously.

Yet, sadly, it seems to have a fascination for you, doesn't it?

Jukesays wrote: Gregory?

Mugwump Says
A very good player. But not in Hanley's league. For heaven's sake - he had to turn his back to pass to the left!

Jukesays Replies with Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !!!!! I think you'll find he turned his back "Sometimes" to pass to the right! Still better than anything this country's produced in the 20 years since!

Betts?
Mugwump says
Don't recall Denis Betts ever breaking any Aussie pots.

Jukesays Replies with Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !!!!! Selective memory my friend, immensely respected and was a target for the Aussie clubs for years. Steve Roach told me at the World Cup he actually thought for a spell early to mid 90's he was in the Top 3 forwards in the world at that time!

Newlove?
Mugwump says
Extremely talented (probably the most balanced centre I've seen) but underachieved in the big games.

Jukesays wrote
And still better than anything this country has produced in the last 5 years!

Connolly?
Mugwump says
For a centre, one try in god knows how many games is pretty poor.

Jukesays WroteThat old chestnut! Nothing got past him though! Wonder if Keith Senior can tackle like that!



Edwards?
Mugwump says!
I can't believe anyone would suggest Edwards. He's not even in Gregory's league.

Jukesays says - All credibility is just about now going!



Davies?

Mugwump says
Had one good game? Two?

More than half the dross we have to watch then!!!!!!!
He didn't have a bad season down under for Canterbury either!

Farrell?
Mugwump says
Played well in his last series against Australia. Prior to that he underachieved.

Underachieved!!!!!! We are talking about the Early to mid 90's here! The lad was 17/18/19 when he played against the Aussies and Kiwis in that period!
Plus along with Sculthorpe was again Head & Shoulders above ANYTHING Sl has produced in the last 5-10 years!

Robinson?

Mugwump says
Robinson was a great player against semi-pro defences. In his last couple of seasons he didn't carry anywhere near his early threat. Basically, he was worked out.

Jukesays says - I can't believe how much sig material there is here!



I'll tell you what I''ll do!
Give me the Nod when you have picked a Team of players that Played/Came through the SL Ranks in the last 10 years and I'll do the same for say 85/95????

Lets see who comes up with the best team/teams eh?

Unbelievable. There have been some astonishing posts on this thread, but that tops saying Wellens was the equal of Davies for sheer lack of credibility.

I'm so shocked by this ludicrous comment about Robinson that I'm actually finding it difficult to type anything in response.

I daren't even put that quote in my sig because anyone who hadn't seen this thread would not be able to believe that anyone could ever say that about Robinson, one of the greatest players in the history of world rugby.

I've just been for a cold shower to get over the Fits of laughter I was in follwed by the thought that maybe I was in some kind of back to front reality nightmare!!!!

I may just ask him "Name a Better winger in the last 10 years!" and sit back waiting for the ludicrous reply he may keep up with!

Jukesays - learn to use the board quote function properly. That mess hurts my eyes so much I can't be bothered to read more than a few lines of it.

Yawn of a match on Sky Tonight.

- Again!

Roughly translated as

Jukesays is right and I'm going to quit now before I look even more of a fool

Deano G: Why take three paragraphs to make essentially the same point? In any case you're wrong. Robinson found it easy to carve up disorganised semi-pro defences. When SL players got fit and worked to carefully set coaching plans he was nowhere near the same threat.

I'm sorry this pops your cork, but reality is a swine. He was a very good player and a very nice bloke, but a great? No. He's one step below Offiah and no sane RL fan would claim otherwise.

kirkamania6: If the poster formats his argument in a non-painful way I'll address each and every point.

Thankyou.

Oh Look!

It doesn't show what you were replying to on my original post!

Maybe that's why I did it this way???????

Now why don't you go and show me these wonderful SDL players of the last 10 years that are better than :-

Gregory/Edwards/Hanley/Schofield/Goulding/Newlove/Connolly/Tait/J Robinson/Offiah/Steadman/Connolly/Deveraux/Currier/J Davies/P Newlove/Hunte/Lydon/Dermott/L Jackson/J Lowes/Betts/Clarke/Goodway/Farrell/K Ward/M Gregory/Skerrett/Platt

ETC ETC ETC!

Or in other words, You know what you said was Rubbish so I'll whinge and cry about my Eyes Hurting!

Jukesays: Have you lost your marbles? I've no idea what's going on above but I'll indulge your madness very simply:

Perhaps ... just perhaps ... you - like all those other old geezers camped around the TV in the local boozer on a Friday night - are overrating the players of yesteryear whilst underrating those of today?

Wading through your disorganised mess (I must be losing it completely):

Gregory: Taking solace from being the best of a bad - nay, hopeless - bunch is living in a fool's paradise.

Betts: When I was eight my dad told me a printed circuit board out the back of a radio was a bionic - that wasn't true either. But if we're to play THIS game - what are your thoughts on Keiron Cunningham? Because when I interviewed Gordon Tallis after the Australia vs Wales match he told me Cunningham's performance was the best he'd faced in his career.

Newlove: Much as it pains me to say it (mainly because he has all the craft of a brickie): Senior has achieved more for GB than Newlove ever did.

Connolly: Only a idiot glosses over an embarrassing try return for such an attacking position. Connolly was a great defensive centre. One of the best of all time. But a centre's job is to ATTACK and defend. He broke very few tackles and created little for his support players. I mean, for years Malcolm Alker has been the best defensive hooker in Britain, but nobody with anything between his ears would advocate him for the national team.

Edwards: The only thing Shaun Edwards ever did against Australia was inflict one of the most heinous head shots in living memory. At least Gregory had the odd competitive game. Edwards was a great club player and a fine captain. But he was never top line international class. And the lack of scintillating YouTube highlights vs the Kangaroos proves it.

Davies: Yep. He played well in the ARL.

Farrell: You included him. Not me. Get out of town. Graham and Burgess are easily as talented.

Robinson: Your sig is your choice - not an affirmation of reality.

Mugwump.


You are deluded.


Sorry m8, we all love RL but you seriously need to re-examine yourself over this one.

Start of a slippery slope Brett.

ok then this is clearly going nowhere, both name a side with the best of both era's, and we'll pick the bone's out of it

It wouldn't make a difference, the same arguments would be made over the same players

LOL, if Mr. Communist Cap's calling me a crank I MUST be sane.

just for fun though