The salary cap hasn't created a more competitive league, far from it.
There are 5 clubs who don't spend the £1.65m and they've no chance of winning anything. So the "level playing field" is out of the window!
Wigan won the first GF the rest have been won by clubs who run benefit trusts, image rights companies, overseas accounts etc. Namely Saints, Bradford & Leeds. Spending the £1.65 alone as Wigan do is not nearly enough, that is why those three clubs have 3-4 International Class players more than Wigan and a whole squad full of quality players more than those not spending the £1.65m.
The salary cap is not just a failure it's a disaster.
It should be abolished and clubs forced to make a profit. League points to be deducted for making an after tax loss!
That way clubs could invest in players all they like and they would be prevented from going bust!
Clubs turning over £5-6m and only investing £1.65m on first team players is a massive underinvestment. This problem needs to be dealt with.

boooooooooooooooo

Sorry but I'd go for Davies every time ahead of those players (especially in Davies favoured FB role, I also thought Davies was class at stand-off, don't recall him playing at centre much). Gidley would run him closest (in terms of quality as a player, I'm not saying Davies was a better centre, but that wasn't Davies' position), Webb hasn't really delivered his initial promise, Senior's past his prime but was never as good a player as Davies. As for Wellens, well you're having a laugh aren't you? More sig material.



I have "a problem" with the CC. Not with the merits of my own team.



Not quite how I remember it, but since your argument is that Saints should have won a game against one of the greatest club sides in RL history, thanks for supporting me!







I think the 92 backs WERE stronger. You're right about the forwards. I don't think its "laughable" to compare the two teams. It probably was a better side overall though than the 92 side but I can't understand why you can't accept a compliment about your 92 side, I am a Wigan fan telling you that was a great side. Its bizarre. The fact you think its worthy of sig status is amusing. As is the fact that you include my reference to the 2009 side (a good team, it may be running away with the SDL but that's more down to the mediocrity of the opposition than the current Saints team being exceptional - come on, be honest, admit it!

).

Getting back to the 2006 side, I do think the Saints 2006 side is a little overrated. If the star players in your side, the ones that look like your best players, include players of limited phsyical gifts like Wellens - though 100% effort and great positional sense, I'm not saying he isn't good, simply that he isn't great - then you can't really claim that the 2006 side is up there with say Wigan from the early-mid 90s, the great Aussie teams like Canberra in the days of Meninga, Daley, Clyde et al or the great Brisbane sides of the 90s.

It's a shame to say I agree with you.

The SC has ruined the quality of the game, sure we get more freak results and stuff but who cares, every sport has it's top clubs I am not saying we have to be one of them, but untill everyone spends the full cap the SC is useless and makes things worse. The only way to get a level playing field is to do it like the NFL in the USA but we are not capable of doing this. We should have no cap but you should have to make a profit and all current super league applications should still be based on stadia and all the various other attributes but also on finances and turnover.

Shock, horror!! Wiganer in "I don't rate Wellens" posting.

All I will say is look at Wellens' individual medal haul.......



And don't we know it!



As I said earlier considering I saw over 90% of the games from both those seasons, I'd say I was in a much better position to judge the relative merits and flaws of them compared with someone who probably saw 20% of them (if they were lucky).



Again with the Wellens-bashing!!!

In fact, it's always the same argument ad nausem but with a different Saints player being berated. Over the years we have had comments claiming that just about every Saints player was "average" and that they are made to look good by their "superstar" teammates. One minute, player X is "average", the next he listed alongside his teammates as you try and prove that player Y is "average".

Face facts: Wellens has been a class act throughout his SL career - his awards, both collectively and individually, prove that beyond any doubt.

Wellens individual collection of medals, awards and trophies, one shows he was surrounded by a good team and also shows the standard of RL has significantly dropped

[url=http://viewtopic.php?t=415278Rugby League loses another International to Union as a result of the salary cap[/url

That rumour's been around for a while but it doesn't make any less disappointing that he will go.
Leeds have invested a lot of time and money in Smith as do all clubs in their youth players. I just feel that clubs should be protected from this. Leeds are financially far wealthier than Wasps but for the salary cap they could pay him his market value and keep him.
Another reason he may be going is that his head coach will be Shaun Edwards. Perhaps he prefers the opportunity of being coached by Edwards rather than McLennan.
A big loss for Leeds and a big loss for Rugby League.

Do we know that the reason he's leaving is purely cash? Perhaps he's just attracted by the opportunities there are in International RU?

Very sad though, good player.

Pages 4-6 are pretty funny

That link's not working.

Probably been deleted because of all the swearing but Lee Smith has signed for Wasps apparently.

Cov Warrior has already dealt with your point about Wellens' success meaning that he is a great player.

As for the rest of your post, the comments about me bashing Saints players are so funny I don't think I could have made them up if I'd being trying to parody you.

This thread contains numerous, often bizarre, posts by Saints fans attacking former Saints players and Saints squads, in a desperate but doomed attempt to shore up the remains of the pro-CC argument.

Given all the abuse heaped upon Saints players and squads by Saints fans on this thread, to then accuse a Wigan fan of bashing Wellens is unbelievable.

Especially as all I was doing was saying that he is a limited player physically - there is no substitute for pace and Wellens isn't and never has been quick - and this stops him, despite all his other attributes as a professional, from being a great player.

I wasn't saying he is "rubbish" or "garbage" or using any of the ridiculous expressions Saints fans have used on this thread about their own players. Wellens is a quality player; a very good player indeed by the dismal standard of FBs in the Soopah Doopah era. He is not however one of the all time greats.

The suggestion that Wellens is on a par with Davies is astonishing. Davies was a tremendously talented player, a superb rugby brain, great hands, quick and elusive. I had the privilege of watching Davies play against the great Wigan sides as well as in internationals. He never looked out of his depth. If only you could say that about Wellens and indeed most of his Soopah Doopah England team mates, then maybe we'd have a fighting chance against the Aussies, instead of receiving the inevitable pummelling. I am absolutely dreading the 4 Nations.

Tbh even attempting to compare Wellens to Davies is embarassing.


It's like comparing a Ford Focus to an Aston Martin.

HOW CAN SUPER LEAGUE BE SUPER WHEN WIGAN ARE NOT TOP OF THE LEAGUE

What's the point debating? Most of the best players of that era played for Wigan and you'll never admit the superiority of a non-Wigan player.

Out of interest I dug up a list of some (not all) of the players selected for GB squads from 1985 to 1995:

Mark Forster
Joe Lydon
Keith England
Kevin Beardmore
Paul Groves
Roy Haggerty
Paul Medley
Mike Gregory
Steve Hampson
Ellery Hanley
Tony Marchant
John Fieldhouse
Neil James
Kevin Rayne
Andy Goodway
Ian Potter
David Laws
David Plange
Phil Ford
Paul Loughlin
David Hulme
Roy Powell
Hugh Waddell
Paul Hulme
Kevin Ward
Paul Dixon
Andy Platt
Martin Offiah
Andy Currier
Paul Newlove
Peter Williams
Kelvin Skerrett
Alan Tait
Darren Wright
Chris Johnson
Shaun Edwards
Barrie Ledger
David Creasser
Vince Gribbin
Deryck Fox
Harry Pinner
Andy Dannatt
Roy Dickinson
Shaun Wane
Nicky Kiss
Gary Divorty
Chris Johnson
Chris Bibb
Gerald Cordle
Jonathan Davies
Paul Eastwood
Carl Gibson
Daryl Powell
Gary Schofield
Graham Steadman
Bobby Goulding
Karl Harrison
Martin Dermott
Lee Jackson
Denis Betts
Karl Fairbank
Richie Eyres
Les Holliday
Paul Moriarty
Michael Jackson
Anthony Sullivan
Ian Lucas
Billy McGinty
Phil Clarke
Allan Hunte
Allan Bateman
Gary Connolly
Andy Farrell
Chris Joynt
Sonny Nickle
John Devereux
Jason Robinson
Barrie McDermott
Henderson Gill
Ronnie Duane
Tony Myler
Alan Rathbone
Mike O'Neill
John Woods
Des Drummond
Lee Crooks
Bob Eccles
Ian Potter
David Stephenson
Andy Gregory

Whilst there are some excellent players listed, there's a huge number of (and I'm being kind here) .... average players. Some of the names listed I literally did a double-take on. Certainly not a halcyon period of RL talent as people seem to be suggesting in this thread.

im not trolling here but its because players have progressed and got better obviosuly some names like Offiah Hanley Woods would still make it if they were in their prime at this level but the game has moved on a lot and its better to watch now than in the past IMO

Mugwumps list is excellent and does highlight average players.
A number of quality players did play for Wigan in that time but there are plenty International class players that never played in cherry & white.
Kevin Ward, props never came any better than him.
Anthony Sullivan would be an automatic choice for GB now.
I always though Deryk Fox was a good 7 and he played for Featherstone.
Alan Tait IMO is still one of the best full backs ever to play the game.
Excluding the Wigan players I'll bet there's a very good GB side in there.

What also convinces me that the standards have dropped is when the RFL launched SL in 2008 they said they were to continue the "Successful" policy of levelling. No mentioned of raising standards or improving our International competitiveness.
The salary cap has been static from the outset, at one point it was reduced from £2m to £1.8m Even at 2% rate of inflation each year it will have lost over 25% of its purchasing power. That is a reduction in standards.
It must be an RFL/SL thing whereby the SC here has been a disaster and in Australia a remarkable success.
As mentioned before, I still believe that the SC should be abolished and clubs made to make an after tax profit. Points deduction for a financial loss. That way clubs can invest how much they like where they like as long as they make a profit.
That way businesses will be developed and monies invested in where the particular clubs deem it necessary.

Finally.

So you picked some, not all


Not a great deal of point in that then is there?

Why don't you do what's previously been suggested and look at the 95 World Cup England squad or the 92 touring squad????

Why not look at the players available between those periods and then compare it to the options we have available today?????

And All I seem to hear is that the 2006-2009 forwards would Batter their predeccessors!
Not if they had to play 60mins with only 4 x substitutions per team they wouldn't!

True - Davies was a different class to Wellens, no doubt.

Double post

Why not look at the 2000 world cup squad which was also pre cap?

The drop in standards has nothing to do with the cap, the drop between the 92/95 teams and the 2000 teams happened with no cap in place. Much of the drop in standards in that period is down to us no longer being able to poach the likes of Davies, Gibbs, Offiah, Devereux, Tait etc from union (and this is nothing to do with the cap, it is due to RU now being openly professional so players have no need to move away from a sport with more exposure and a better international scene. Not to mention the likes of Leicester generate more cash than any British RL team anyway. However much money RL can find, RU can find more).

The standards of GB rugby is, and always has been, about youth development.

If you think I'm sitting up all night typing out names for a bunch of pie eaters who'd rather swear black is white than admit players weren't Olympian gods back in the 80s and 90s you are sadly mistaken.

In any case, it makes no difference. As things stand most of the best players of that era are included in the list. It's the (ton of) dross that I've skipped.



You mean those squads that trounced Australia? No, I don't remember any of those.