Excellent post. Good to see that someone can see what is actually happening. Totally predictable in attack, called it exactly right and yes I agree, our lack of options in our set moves in attack is the coaches fault.
Spot on again with Goulding, I couldn't believe the uproar when he wasn't picked for England, he was no strike! Yes he can tackle (well usually) but never causes the defensive line any trouble, not a patch on Carmont, I'd go as far to say Hughes has more strike.

Agreed about Wire, TS has our number, can read our game like a book. If we get them in the final there's only 1 winner.
Sadly, looking at the new halfback pairing (despite the fact that I do like Smith) is on the decline, that with Wane in charge IMO will see a slow decline in the Wigan team. Sooner have Trent Robinson.

On the plus side I do rate Blake Green as a 6 and am hoping he changes our one dimensional attack next season. Finch seems far more robotic under Wane than he did under Maguire. I thought having Harris and Deacon would have made us more fluent, but it hasn't, we are predictable and good sides can defend against us with ease, well, I say good sides, there's only Warrington and Leeds on a good day, as the rest of SL is pretty much diabolical these days.

Back onto Goulding, he's good on a Sunday afternoon when your winning at London with 40 points, he's never had a good game in a big game, not this season anyway. The semi he was awful, and he was abismal last night, by no means am I using him as a scapegoat, iv said it for quite some time about him, he's a static defender, anyone with good feet goes round him with ease (i.e Josh jones last night) Hughes as an all round rugby player offers far more IMO, both in defence and in attack.

Also thought Richards was poor last night, never ever beats the first man from a kick return, and its frustrating to watch, for a bloke his size and with his pace he should offer far more in attack than he actually does.

Nothing will change though in attack, Wane doesn't know how to change it. We'll just keep "knocking teams about" and "getting stuck in" until we meet Wire, and once again, he'll get outcoached from Smith.

I totally agree with all your points. Good to know someone can see it for what it is. If you were picking your Wigan team for next year, what would it be?

Another plus for MM getting banned is that Matty Smith will take on some of the last tackle kicking which was poor last night. I reckon if we had turned Saints round more on the 5th tackle kick and found the floor instead of the slug we would have won in a canter ( even with a man down).

I felt we did miss Smith's kicking game. Be interesting to see how we line up v Cats.

In response to Last son of Wigan's question about what my team would be next year

1. Tomkins
2. Charnley
3. Hughes
4. Thornley/Goulding but preferably a signing if anyone decent is available.
5. Richards
6. Green
7. Smith
8. Mossop
9. McIlorum
10. Prescott
11. Hock
12. Hansen
13. Lockers

Hardly the world 13, but blame the Communist Cap for that, it has and will continue to drag our sport down until we reach the point where we are all playing at the level that London are at now.

Well done on the league leaders shield. Nice touch having it custom made





FWIW, from a neutrals point of view, MMc's sending off was a correct decision. He should be bollocked within an inch of his life for jeopardising your play off chances1

Best of luck!

Murphy
Charnley Hughes Carmont (1 more yr) Richards
Tomkins Smith
Dudson McLlorum Mossop
Hock Hansen
Lockers
---------------------
Flower Fielden Faz another.

goulding gave space, but always recovered to make the tackle which is the important part in the . him and charnley also rarely gave the winger space last night which is impressive when a man down. and also, how often do shine when a team is a man down. generally a needs at least a 2 on 2 to make space/draw a man. when a man down its far more unlikely goulding was ever going to crack the defences last night. goulding has shown he can make space for his winger and also has cracking hands. he may not have the speed but i feel he covers his cracks.

He's an average player who shines against the poor teams, give me an example of his doing something outstanding in a big game this season?

Totally agree.

With by far the best attack, which has scored well over 200 tries this season. In all our losses, including the CC semi, it's been our defence that was to blame, conceding 30+ points in most of them.

And regarding Goulding, if a winger scores 37 tries (so far) in a season, it's a fair bet that he has a good centre inside him.

That's a bit unfair IMO. Granted, we were murdered by them at the HJ but if it wasn't for 3 minutes of stupidity from Lauaki we'd have won the game at our place, he certainly wasn't outcoached that night.

If we attack like we did at the magic weekend, and put that amount of effort and character in like last night then I'm not worried. I've seen more than enough from Wane's Wigan this year to tell me we can win our next 3 games.

We started the season well, as of late our attack has been VERY predictable.

As for your second comment, Charnley scores an awful lot of solo tries were he beats his opposite man and goes round them with pace so I wouldn't read too much into that

i guess i should qualify before i go searching, do any of the matches we won count?

Of course.

Fire away............

when he went off after first spell he was top tackler....doubt a first timer would do that.
i agree in attack tho, he was mainly a dummy runner, but it kept saints guessing

Exactly. Could argue Charnley would have scored more with Inglis as his centre by that logic.

For what it's worth this was my post after the Wire game...

"Beaten, bullied, out played.

Our attack seems highly predictable, seems to be the same movement every week, half/dummy runner to half/dummer runner to Sam linking up from the back causing a 3 v 2 overlap with Daz and Josh on his outside. From this we seem to get either Sam dummy and go, pass to Daz or cut out ball to Josh. (Of course this movement is evident on the other side of the pitch with George etc).
9/10 it works against lesser teams. its fast and with Sam's ability we score from it. But against a good coach it becomes transparent. Wire easily cancelled out our best attacking weapon (Sam) simply by having JM cut in and stop the moment when Sam is about to take on the ball. Regardless of such predictably there was no plan B.

In contrast when St George were coached by Wayne Bennett they perfected the moment whereas the defence had no idea who was going to run, who was going to be the dummy runner and who was going to finish with the ball.

They used Soward to break away, from here the defence would not know if he's going to take on the line or pass, with this he had a SR Ben Creagh alongside with Cooper and Morris as an attacking centre/winger partnership. To add another threat Boyd joined the line from FB. At this point any of the mentioned could be the ball carrier, anyone the dummy runner. When the 5 attack down the flank in a line the 3/4 of the opposition would be scared to death of what was going to come next.

We don't have such movement, we look predictable, basically cancel Sam and you've stopped our attack, with StG if Boyd was stopped one of the others would be still a threat.

I think we have the players to create something different, the drills need to be practised and coached, I barely see any other pattern, we play into the oppositions hands.

Warrington like to throw the 'first punch' hit us hard and keep on the pressure from the get-go, the opposition tire from tackle after tackle and become vulnerable and exposed, and of course when you're tired you are more likely to make mistakes. This happened, it's almost as if Wane fires up certain players so much they lose their heads, case in point Micky.

This season Micky has proven his ability as a top 9, however, at times, when fired up he seems more concerned with intensity and letting us all know how 'ard he is' rather than keeping a cool head. If he was a backrower it would be different, but as a 9 you must have composure and awareness, I for one have never ever seen Cam Smith lose his cool, today of all days, playing with just a single 9 he had to be so in-control, I feel he wasn't, (at one point he was rolling on the floor with Moz to show us how 'ard he is'.
This created such a negative impact, at times when we needed to generate momentum getting on a roll with the forwards we never did, Micky wasn't at the races. If he cooled down and became a 'game leader' rather that an enforcer we'd would have had more chance of winning the arm-wrestle.

The forwards were rattled, Wire brought an 'origin esque' attitude, a winning mentality which has been inspired by their coach and key on on field leaders, Morley showed his calibre and leadership which Hill followed with great effect. Westwood showed his winning desire and played for his life. Excellent mentality throughout.
In opposition to this who are actually our leaders? Lockers, love him, great player, but leader? Undecided. We have some excellent props but who's the enforcer/leader? If one of the props matched Morley maybe Micky wouldn't feel the need to enforce from 9. Eric for me was the best player, he brought it, pity Mossop didn't stand up, and I think it's about time Prescott was pushed to one side for other props, can't remember seeing a prop lose the ball so much on impact. Lima worked hard but he needs more support.
Hock is 'origin' in his approach but seems to have trouble raising intensity without losing his head, with this Wane panics and takes him off.

We don't seem mentally ready. Maybe Wane's I'll shout them down get angry until they play better approach isn't always the best way to deal with a beaten team. We almost seem nervous and afraid of Wire, we shouldn't be.

It's time for a plan B, more options in attack with a strong steel mentality which shows no fear, no backing down. Won't lose our heads or temperament but we'll tackle so hard they will be scared to take the line on."

anyone know if tommy is ok,he limped off last night.

St Helens game at Manchester Magic?

Now that would REALLY be worth winning!

Getting the Catalans is not the worst result of last night and to slate a team that played 75% plus of the game is being short sighted, I think last night could be the best way to motivate the team for the play offs. Players who had been slated really stood up last night, Mossop looked aggressive and the extra effort needed by the 12 men left on the pitch showed no shortage of desire. To expect an attack to work effectively with 12 men is harsh and when the missing man is the dummy half it compounds the effect on the attack. Extra defence also means less energy can be used in attack. I would be more worried if I was a Saints fan.

Yes. It would be far better for the future of the game to let you bankrupt yourself snapping up all available playing talent and buying hollow trophies for the next decade, with every other team in the league being turned into the Washington Generals wouldn't it? That would soon have SL booming and interest and cash pouring into the game at all levels... You lost your stadium and your history doing that last time, remember? If next time ever happens then what's left of the sport would die with you instead...

And we will all indeed be playing at the London level soon, but that has sod all to do with the cap - blame football and (to a lesser extent) the RU and NRL. The cab would do nothing but hasten the inevitable demise.

No, I don't remember us losing our history. You're going to have to give us all a good laugh telling us how that works.