do you think Sam Tomkins was quiet when he was coming through? i dont personally, but had had the talent, ability and work ethic to fulfil his potential (off field antics aside)

its not all about toeing the line, which is what seems to be inferred with the keeping his mouth shut comment. Hampshire played over 30 games for Wigan, and spells with Cas and Leigh didnt exactly set the world on fire with all coaches being unsure of his best position, but none have cemented him as a half back. If you have the ability you need to knuckle down and not just talk about how good you are etc, you still need to deliver. Under Shaun Wane's tenure there are many youth players that made the grade, and i am guessing equally as many (or more) that didnt.

there was a lot of forum talk about Williams and Hampshire being our half back pairing for years to come. IMO 1 has fulfilled his potential and currently plying his trade in Oz, whilst the other hasnt (although making it as a professional player shouldnt be sniffed at). It could genuinely be that Hampshire has found his level, and was over hyped, i genuinely dont know as i dont get to watch the youth players coming through.

I'm not seeing the comparison to be honest. Hampshire never got a crack in the first place (in the halves anyway).

what i was trying to suggest is that you have 2 young half backs who came through at the same time. Lots of hype about them. 1 is fulfilling his potential whilst the other (based on the hype on forums / agent talk etc) isnt

if you was going to advise Harry Smith about fulfilling his potential, as Adrian Lam what would you be saying to him? I was using the Williams / Hampshire as an example of what can be achieved if you knuckle down. I am sure there are many other examples that he could use. George Williams wasnt always played in the halfs if i recall correctly, as he spent quite a bit of time at hooker.

The other way to look at it is 1 had a successful career at Wigan and now in Oz, whilst the other didnt, Whether fans think Hampshire was given a fair chance or not is now irrelevant, as coaches at Cas and Leigh also didnt see him as a half back, and i dont think he plays much time there at Wakey either.

i have nothing against Ryan Hampshire. Like i've said in another post, based on forum talk both him and Williams were the next Wigan / GB half back pairing for years to come, but it clearly hasnt worked out that way for whatever reason. It could be ability, work ethic, talent, i genuinely dont know

Nothing to do with toeing the line and everything about attitude.

If you asked Sam to play at prop he would and he would give 110% He probably wouldn't like but he would crack on.

Hampshire (or his 'agent') decided to voice their concerns over his position rather than knuckle down and cement a place in the team such as Sam, George etc

Yeah I think Hampshire is more an example that you can't choose what position you get to play, or that sometimes the only way to get regular rugby is to leave the club. Different situation with Williams, played a tiny bit off the bench at 9 but was almost always in his preferred position, didn't need to leave to get regular rugby. If he was struggling to get a game and then only being used at hooker when he did get a game then maybe he would have done the same thing Hampshire did, or maybe he would have cracked on. We'll never know.

Heard it was more his dad.

*You know the type..... there's a number of them at every age group at every amateur club up and down the country.

I had a PM once saying a bloke voicing his displeasure on here was Hampshire’s dad. Not the way to go about things surely and after being peeved about being a utility player here, he’s gone on to be a utility player at Cas, Leigh and Wakey, so it looks like even teams lower down the pecking order haven’t fancied him as a halfback either.

Rocky is one of the hardest working players playing the game.

I think there were a few issues with his time at Wigan which caused him to lose a bit of career momentum.

Wigan youth system is getting a bit of a reputation of not looking after the junior players from Yorkshire as it does the local lads. Appreciate there is always going to be banter but it seems a little more than that almost an us against them mentality.

Not saying it is true but I’ve heard it from quite a few lads and it probably doesn’t do our ability to attract lads from Yorkshire any favours. Rocky certainly felt that way.

Another issue was the rigidity of the systems. He was a natural off the cuff player and one of the best you will see. Played with his eyes up, Wigan wanted him to conform to a more structured style of play which isn’t really his game. He did try to go along with it but ultimately it was a bit of a square peg round hole situation.

His advisors could see it wasn’t working for him and probably became a bit too vocal about it.

I think the time he spent at Wigan ultimately damaged his progress and if he had worked with another coach/system that allowed him to play his natural game he’d currently be held in higher regard,

Smith for me is much more suited to the organiser structured role he will be asked to play. I’d say there are more comparisons with Deacon than others mentioned. A lad with a controlling style who can also offer that bit of threat from time to time, but generally directs traffic and sets up field position/plays.

Is it really? Who said that? What evidence is there?

As I said not sure if it’s true but it is certainly the way some of the lads that have been in the system have said and felt and it is certainly a perception around some of the more elite juniors amateur level perhaps perpetuated by lads who still have links with their junior clubs.

Whichever way it goes with Smith, he couldn't ask for a better setup or have better people around him.

Lam & Tommy are two top draw mentors. Hastings will be able to tell him a cautionary tale, or two, as well as other things.

Outside of that our development systems are 2nd to none. He'll get support, opportunity and a fair crack at establishing himself.

I'm trying to think what young Yorkshire lads we've even got:

Smithies - first choice every week, even post-ban

Kilner - I'd expect to get more of a go this year. I'd assumed he was younger than Partington and Byrne but he isn't actually. Maybe he has a bit of a case that he should have had more than the one game to be fair. He looked good on debut.

Borough - Don't think he can claim he's better than Powell or Leuluai.

Anyone I missed?

These tend to be lads that haven’t made first grade.

Now I appreciate there may be an element of sour grapes however I’ve known plenty of lads that haven’t made it at other clubs who speak highly of the experience regardless.

Micky Mac,

EDIT - sorry just saw you meant who weve got now

was his Dad, but the club acted very poorly in it all also

Ah fair enough. Hard to say to be honest without really scrutinising at that level. The fact we are getting plenty lads from other areas coming through does show the door isn't shut at least.

I'd wager there is probably some basis to it at scholarship level though. You have a Wigan kid who the club have probably been keeping an eye on since he was 12, likely knows some of the people at the club already on a personal level, his club coach will probably know the scholarship coach. Then you have someone picked up by a scout based on a BARLA Cup game against Pats. Don't know him, no club coach in your ear about him.

You don't get to train with them much at that level and only have a few games. No prizes for guessing which player is probably going to get picked at first, especially in some positions where there are only one or two spots in the 17. If they can get past that hurdle then by academy stage I'd hope it would level out more as they are training together regularly and the coaches will have had more time to get to know the players. Not ideal but I don't know how it gets fixed without having more time with the players at an earlier stage somehow, but that's difficult at that age when they can't drive themselves, have school commitments and rarely play against teams from outside the county for their clubs.

Ironically Rocky’s dad was also doing a bit of scouting in Yorkshire.

Knows his rugby his dad, coached the Trinity Academy to the last time they won the championship turning over a very strong Wigan side in the semi with a good few first team players drafted in. Can’t remember exactly who but I remember Charnley definitely played.

In some people’s opinion he maybe was unlucky not to get a crack at the main job.

Can be an abrasive chap and maybe that went against him.

I personally enjoy talking to him about rugby but I sadly think he has lost his passion for it. He certainly wasn’t happy with how they were trying to mould Rocky into something he felt he wasn’t and he wouldn’t be the kind of bloke not to make his thoughts heard.

Cheers Jon, thats a good and different insight

like i have posted i personally never had an issue with hampshire and there is undoubted talent there, and he was seen as a future Wigan and GB halfback (or certainly hyped that way), and i can only call what i have seen in terms of the comparison i made with Williams and Hampshire.

i was lucky enough to go to a sportmans dinner at Haigh Hall a few years ago and had Kris Radlinski and Steve Hamspon sat on the table with us, and natural talent was one of the discussion points as Sam T was on the scene at that point. They were trying to get the balance between off-cuff / play as you see it v structure as they saw him as special at that time

They beat our 18s in 2009, but no 2009 first teamers played. Charnley didn't

Must have been another time I was definitely at an Academy game at Belle Vue when Wigan drafted in a number of the younger first teamers.

Charnley played in the centre and Trinity turned them over.

Time has probably merged the 2 games.

Murphy King Crow Hughes Melling McLoughlin Powell Spencer L.Tomkins Harrison Sarsfield Molloy Thompson Russell Burke Bridge Jackson

was the team when we lost the 2009 grand final to them

we also lost the play off game to them a few weeks earlier with a team of

Murphy King Crow Charnley Melling Molloy Powell Spencer L.Tomkins Sarsfield Hughes Burke Thompson McLoughlin Harrison Bridge Jackson

Matty Nicholson, very highly rated by the coaching staff at Wigan.

Could be the playoff game Pieman mentions.

I do briefly recall them having a decent side at that level.

They were highly motivated too. It was the same year Leon Walker passed and they played that season in his memory.

was 2009 then, be one of them games, like you said could have merged into 1 as they were pretty close together