Saints pack is stronger and ours is built for the type of rugby played in the play offs and GF. Relentless power, quick ptb and the halves putting the opposition under pressure. with their quality kicking game. Hudds forwards look formidable again but a big question mark over Wire and Leeds packs.
Wire have lost Carvell, Cooper and biggest loss of all Morley who was their forward talisman and hardman. Leeds pack just seems to get older every year. Should anything happen to the exceptional Peacock they could end up in real trouble with the forwards left. Wire and Leeds both have great backs but if their forwards are not winning their battle they won't be that effective.

Niggling injury for me is one that is not a major injury but will cause a player problems. Big men and ankle injuries are a concern, him not being able to put a full pre season is a concern.

He looked to be blowing in the World Cup, that is not going to improve anytime soon. He seems to be the stereotypical Islander, who really has to work on his conditioning. Him being unable to do that is a blow.

I am sure he will have some good days as his carry is so strong, but physically he looks a total different animal to what he did at the Roosters 2 years ago when he was most effective. He was significantly leaner then. Unless Saints are patient with him and really work with him whilst I am sure he will catch the eye, he will be a target for the smaller men in attack.

Time will tell.

You could easily compare Warrington's "losses" with a squad losing Mossop, Harrison, Tuson, Lauaki and Powell (ok I admit the last two aren't really a loss).

The Warrington pack is still a very good unit: Hill, Higham, Asotasi, Waterhouse, Westwood, Grix with Wood, Monaghan, Harrison, Currie on the bench plus still in the squad from last season Dwyer, Riley and Laithwaite boosted further by the signing of Anthony England and the return from loan of Ben Evans.

I really struggle to see any question marks over that pack, where do you think it is weak? By the end of last season Morley and Carvell had been replaced as our frontline props by Hill and Wood.

For Saints I don't even see who would step-in at hooker if Roby suffers an injury again.

And what suggests that Saints won't work hard with him and be patient?

Hohaia probably.

I don't think Saints have the best conditioning team by ant stretch, but as I said time will tell.

For me the signs do not look good, but that is all it is at this stage. He may prove to be a valuable asset for you, he has the potential if kept in shape and used correctly to be, but as I said to start this exchange, he is a risky signing. All signings could be classed as risky but this guy is more so than most.

Whilst it may seem insignificant this ankle injury means he will miss almost the entire preseason running and powerlifting program, it's not a good start.

Although different in height to Feka he reminds me of him about 2 years in to his Wigan career. When Feka first came over he was in much better shape then Masoe was in the World Cup but he let himself go and piled weight on. He was still an effective runner but a poor defender and a luxury player. He then got fit but wasn't as powerful and he still struggled to do longer spells.

I could see Saints having similar issues with Masoe. Do you stick with the unfit luxury type player who'll cause havoc for 20-30 minutes a game or do you try and get him fit so he can do longer minutes but run the risk of his impact drastically dropping? It's all about balance I suppose. If Saints feel they have a couple of other props that can churn out huge minutes it may not be an issue but if they ever pick up a couple of injuries and he becomes 2nd/3rd choice prop then its dangerous.

It'll certainly be interesting watching how he goes.

Amor, Laffranchi and LMS will rotate as our starting props and be expected to do big minutes. I'm hearing Walmsley will also be expected to do longer stints than he did last year as he has worked had on his fitness. So Masoe will be used purely as an impact player. We all saw in the Samoa v NZ game how he can change the momentum of a game.

I think there's an element of you lot clutching at straws in order to have a pop at Saints in all honesty.

Calling it a risky signing when you've signed a guy who was described as being physically unable to carry on in the NRL is quite ironic.

Your posts are guaranteed to dispel any January gloom.



We don't need to clutch at straws.

We are the league and cup champions, having won the double with a young and still improving side. While we've lost a few players (as we did at the end of 2012) I'm happy with our recruitment.

I'm also happy for Saints players to talk about their "frightening" pack and for other people to big up Wire and Leeds.

We are Wigan and we do things differently. Wigan these days is a club that means business - actions speak louder than words, that is the Wigan way. That is the approach of IL, SW and SOL and I like it.

I expect Wigan to continue to do our talking on the pitch, at the business end of the season, when it matters. (And hopefully in the WCC!)

Absolutely nothing to do with the topic we are discussing but I'm glad you're happy.

Scary thing is our side is so young compared to most if not all SL teams and with more coming through each season. Hampshire will play a lot of minutes at FB this season to rest Bowen when needed. Most sides look at our side and think our pack seems light but RL is changing and the days of impact props is over. It was the nature of the Wire pack that won us the GF last season. Could not live with us and for them having technically 2 impact props who played almost 40+ minutes, that was too much and a quick mobile well controlled pack ground them. down.

The days of the old saying a good big un will always beat a good little un is changing. RL props have to be mobile and the squad needs covering players to multi task. Given 3 out of our 4 props did a number on Wire in the GF i would take our 4 over 80 minutes than any other set in SL. Taylor started last season as an impact prop but ended up as much more than a 10 minutes spell player.

Whilst Saints have an impact prop they do not have the impact that Bitcon has on a player and for all the bluster of people on here what Bitcon can do to a players fitness is remarkable.

As for the risk on Bowen the quote on his fitness will be proved either way this season but for me it was a nice way of the Cowboys telling their fans that they wanted him off the cap as they had a player on less money to cover him. And for Bowen to leave in a dignified manner. Though i would rather have Bowen at FB and risk him than any-other FB in SL. Risk yes but risk with Hampshire covering and needing game time its worth it.

And I for one is happy about that!

Of Course he is happy He is a Wigan fan.

Do you believe that the reason that massive packs are on the way out is due to SL games largely now been played on harder grounds which inturn leads to a quicker game. Prop like Flower is ideal now.

So am I (the good times are well and truly back at Wigan these days

) and my post did relate to the topic we are discussing.

The question posed by the OP was "Adding James Roby to them, does it make it a pack to be feared by a young inexperienced Wigan pack ?."

You then accused Wigan fans of clutching at straws.

I said we didn't need to, had a young and improving side, had recruited well and would do our talking on the pitch, letting others make a noise in the press.

Agreed re the young players, Bowen/Hampshire and our props. Taylor is a good player already and could go on to world class IMO. He has massive potential (as do a number of others).

Learn to read properly. I said people were clutching at straws in order to have a pop at Saints. That has nothing to do with the Wigan squad.

Do you not think the fact that Warrington finished the game with 15 fit players had anything to do with what you're saying? Or did you forget/ignore that bit?

Giraffe everyone is entitled to their opinion, I have seen it a few times on here when someone puts up an alternative view you don't half get shirty.

All I am saying is he is a big lad that clearly needs to work hard to maintain his playing weight. He also requires surgery on his ankle already which will put him out for the most important part of the year in terms if preparation, hardly a great start.

As for Lafranchi and LMS they will have to improve significantly for me. Very very average. Amour is a decent player but he is not a top class SL Prop and never will be. He will take it up and he wil tackle. He will not make big yards or punishing drives/tackles. If you can get Walmsley up to more minutes, in my opinion that wil be a much needed boost as he could be your bolter.

Actually we only had 14 fit players. Lee was injured and if it were not such a massive game & we had already lost 2 key players then he would have been subbed.

Is that clutching at straws to have a pop at Wigan?

I think you are doing Amor a disservice there mate. He is better than what you make him out to be.

Interestingly, you say he doesn't make big yards but his average yard gain last season was higher than all of the Wigan props. What do you think of that?

I agree on Laffranchi, he has been disappointing. LMS is very hit and miss, goes from excellent one week to frustratingly poor the next.

Haha no. It's me responding to somebody who was making out that their young mobile pack completely dominated Warrington.

No as they were done for before the major injury issue to the FB. Early in the second half they were gone and it was obvious. No one mentions that SOL was playing on one leg and Green had one good eye to see out of. Typically you ignored that fact.

Difference was that SOL had cover in Flower who plays as a prop. Thats where the game is now changing and impact players have no value anymore. Deciding factor in the GF was that we played at pace for 80 minutes. Both Leeds and Huddersfield could not match us either. Another fact you seem to not see. Giants a big pack got mauled by us. Our squad now has so much depth that Wane will do the same as last season play until we get top 4 and rest players and get as close to a fit squad as possible. And that was the deciding factor Wane did not care about results after we got guranteed top 4 spot.

If we lost Sam and Richards we would have coped with it. Same as we did when Richards went off in 2010. Injuries are part of Rugby and players need to play more than 20-30 minutes per game or otherwise it will cost you. Covering injuries is part of the game and boy We are truly the best at that.

Nice to see your recent success hasn't made you arrogant!