Are we really saying that a Wigan first-teamer, however young, could only be on £160 pw? That sounds incredible to me.

And, needless to say, if true, wrong, wrong, wrong!

Well if you want players to leave, that is the way to do it.

One of my first memories of a player signing for Wigan was a very young Shaun Edwards. It was all over the media back that at 17 he signed for a signing on fee of £35,000. That would be £108,000 today!

That is because Wigan recognised the schoolboy internationals talent and wanted to tie him to Wigan despite the interests of several other clubs and that is what they did. The rest is history.

Some players are special talents and warrant that kind of up front investment or higher wages. Otherwise they leave/don't sign as others are prepared to take what maybe a risk but they do stump up the cash.

If as was suggested above Burgess offered to stay for less than offered in OZ and if Wigan would not budge not because it was an unrealistic amount of money to pay to a player but just that it was more than other players of his age and experience or due to some self imposed club wage structure, then we will never sign another Shaun Edwards again if that is the attitude.

Not all players are equal and some are worth more than others and it looks like Burgess has realised his worth by going elsewhere.

Agreed, with Manfredi in reserve it would be daft to offer Burgess a massive contract, particularly as wing isn't exactly a key role either. Didn't IL say a massive problem with the previous regime was that a few players took up a huge amount of cap space? Can't blame him if this is partly a case of picking his battles so to speak

What a stupid comparison.
There was no salary cap at that time, I'm not even sure if there was freedom of contract in Rugby League.

Do you remember Daryl Lacey?

times change, salary cap and no sugar daddy

If Kris is in charge of contracts then he has a difficult job in negotiations with the agents of Charnley, Hampshire, Sarginson and Gelling. The latter two should be the easiest although I thought Gelling had signed a new two year deal not long ago.
As for Josh and Rocky then that's going to be challenging. Both are top players in their scope.
Josh is a top try scorer and Ryan one of the best of his age in the League.
To find a way through, do we have a "marquee player" catagory in the club's own pay structure?
I'd imagine Lockers would be very well paid, or should be. Bowen will be on a very tidy sum too.
Does this catagory go further down the pecking order?
There should be SC space and this was admitted ealier when Eddie suddenly departed. Surely therefore there is space in the club's own pay structure for an "adjustment" to accomodate our most talented lads.
All four players mentioned need to be retained but I'd imagine Josh and Ryan will be, or should be, the priority

Daryl is a good friend of mine and he had a lot of personal issues. He didn't get anywhere near to fulfilling his potential but there was mitigating circumstances.

But I do agree, with the salary cap in place (And so low IMO) it is hard to tie down the youngsters early

It is not a stupid comparison at all and certainly not as daft as your initial idea.

Where did I say break the salary cap? If an exceptional young player comes along and you pass because he is worth £90K a year (as determined by the market) and you won't pay it then you lose the young player. Not just any player but one of exceptional talent.

It is about ambition and more importantly[u recognition of talent[/u and [uwhat you have to pay[/u to secure it.



He was, if I recall correctly a young lad signed at about 12 years old who has since obviously vanished. What has that got to do with it? Edwards in 1983 wasn't 12 and neither is Burgess Burgess in 2015. The talent of these two was/is there to see already and is about paying the going rate for it or not.

What will you say if Hampshire follows Burgess? I see no reason to expect to hang onto him if the club won't match his value when it is within its power to do so.

One problem with the market dictating his value is that Wigan can't follow the market because of the salary cap.

The other problem with the market dictating his worth is that it fluctuates. Anyone lucky enough to witness Ryan's displays at Leigh and Saints recently will have wondered what all the fuss is about (and before anyone mentions he did well at Stand Off against Leigh - that was a Championship team not at full strength).

Personally I'd have rather Wigan spent some money buying a Super League standard Half Back for the coming season.

In sport those planning for the future forget the present. The future never comes. At the moment Hampshire (and Williams) isn't good enough to play regularly in a TOP Super League team. Whether he will is a matter of crystal ball gazing.

If someone wants to offer him silly money, let them. Same with Burgess. They may consider this though, the grass isn't always greener elsewhere. Burgess will be back from Australia with his tail between his legs because he isn't good enough to get in the Roosters team in my view. Hampshire will do well to sign the contract offered by Wigan because from what I've seen he is seriously overrated (which doesn't mean he isn't good - just that he isn't as good as people think)

he was only the same as Ryan King, its just that Burgess took off. Same could have happened to Burgessa s happened to KIng. Its ok saying they should have known but its a risk.

If you look at our team from 2010 to now, all I can see is experience / big earners being lost and inexperience taking over from academy on what would I would think less money.

There is a post on the St Helens forum about Wigan and January sales! I know we won trophies in that time but if we are spending more or less the full cap there are some players who are well over paid! We seem to be turning into Arsenal who are recruiting low end or players we think are projects we can improve. If we was getting are own stadium like they did I like most probably wouldnt mind but it doesnt look like we are.

What doesnt bear thinking about is our entire back line almost could change at the end of the year. We face the prospect of losing our full back, rumoured to be going back to aus at the end of the season, burgess confirmed as going, Charnley rumoured to be not happy at the terms offered, sarginson rumoured to be off to the NRL and gelling who is also off contract. That doesnt bear thinking about.

Half of the 2010 team aren't playing anymore so we couldn't do much about losing them. There are a couple of players in there I'd love to still see with us (Tomkins and Hansen) but it's not to be.

The squad has lost high earner over the years but we carry a big squad with plenty of depth and that costs money. We have a squad full of developing players as you point out, but in having that you know their salaries will need to go up as they make those improvements. The club seems to leave money in the pot to cover that. If you look at the situation of Dan Sarginson, we signed him as a 'project' from Quins and he's improved out of sight. The club are in talks with him to extend his deal now and I presume the guy will be asking for a hefty pay increase (and rightfully so). That has to come from somewhere!

Lenagan and Wane have admitted there's some money in the pot still if a new signing becomes available so we're in pretty good shape all things considered.

I didnt mean i wanted to keep the players that was in the squad in 2010, its the experience and big names that havent been replaced since 2010.

Tomkins
Leuleui
Deacon
Coley
Feka
Riddell
Hansen
Finch
Carmont
Gleason

Plus many more

Thats my scapegoat for the season sorted...

I think you're going to look extremely foolish further down the line if you look back at that. Within three years I honestly expect him to have England caps, a nailed down starting spot at Wigan (if we can keep him) and debates over whether he's better than Sam Tomkins. Like you say no one has a crystal ball but I really do expect big things based on the games I've seen him play

I'm a saints fan and don't watch Wigan as much as you but Hampshire was all over the place in the friendly last week. Tbf he wasn't alone.

But the point above is an interesting one. The person that said Hampshire is overrated might be correct and from what I've read on here (I've seen a comparison to Murphy, or some sort of comparison anyway) I would say he probably is overrated and he is under a lot of pressure.

I don't think the poster above was saying he isn't a talent btw...It does amuse me how defensive people get over how well they can judge potential. It's a nonsense really. I am guilty of this too. I remember seeing wheeler come through at saints and thinking he is going to be outstanding and a future England player, but things can easily change.

Wishful thinking maybe. Time will tell, but I'd advise you not to mark someone down on the basis of a pre-season friendly.

With all due respect, comparing Hampshire to Sam Tomkins, rather makes YOU look foolish.

You are heaping unnecessary pressure on a young player who is trying to make his way in the game.

By the way saying he will have England caps isn't really that big a deal is it? We currently have the English Scrum Half playing for us, good player, good pro and good bloke but limited in what he offers. There are many ordinary players who have turned out regularly for Wigan as well.

I'll reiterate, I think Hampshire has talent, but he is overrated. I'm afraid it is wishful thinking, that to be fair, we all indulge in from time to time.You might as well say Sutton will be the next Jamie Peacock, Williams the next Sean Edwards and Gildart the next Dean Bell, all of which may turn out to be true, though rather unlikely, I'd say.

Mine is George Williams with Gelling as backup.

Gelling will be gutted, he has gone from being an unchallenged scapegoat of the last 3 years to being just a reserve.!!!!!!!

Very good!

I haven't marked him down on the basis of a pre season friendly. I can only judge a player by watching them, not on the hype that everyone else builds for them.

When a player is 'promising' then generally fans get excited: understandably. This in itself piles the pressure on and their currently ability is overrated and there is no limit to what they expect from their 'potential'.

As I said above: we are all guilty of this.

I'll go for tomato or whatever his name is