With any loop fixtures, I'd bet that Saints and Leeds will play the lower-end teams three times, and maybe four. They seemed to last time it was used



I dont get why they didnt go for 14 teams, 27 rounds, inc Magic, 14th gets relegated, 13th joins Championship 2, 3, 4 & 5 in a relegation play-off, at the same time as the SL top 5 have their play-off, with a survival/grand Final double header as a climax to the season.

If we have to have loop fixtures it has to be determined by the previous years league position as to who plays who. As others have said the magic opponent has to be someone who is not in the loop fixture list.

If it was just down to me I’d have had a 14 team league and a simple top 6 play off with 1 & 2 having the first week off then playing the winners of 3 v 6 and 4 v 5 for a GF place. I didn’t really like the top 5 last time as there are too many second chances and potentially too many weeks off.

IMO the reason for dwindling crowds is a lot to do with how the RFL run the sport.

Constantly changing structures; if we can’t keep up, how can we expect a neutral to? It looks totally amateurish and laughable.

Short notice fixture changes; it’s happened with Salford and us recently and it’s ridiculous. Fixture changes with less than a weeks notice in Salford’s case.

I’ve lost complete faith in the RFL to run our sport and I genuinely believe they will ruin rugby league in this country if they’re allowed to continue with the utterly inept, ridiculous and embarrassing way they run the sport. I hope Robert Elstone can turn it around from a Super League perspective and then make the RFL see. Otherwise our sport is done as a professional sport in this country.

I'm thinking that Ellstone (and co.) will be waiting for the current SKY deal near it's end and then go back to them with a revised plan of a 14 team league which includes Toronto (who I think will go up this year anyway) plus Toulouse and London, in search of an improved deal.

We're never ever going to get many more £millions playing in and around the M62 area.

From memory, it will be odds v evens based on league fixtures the previous year

1 v 2, 6 and 10 at home and 4, 8 and 12 away.

2 v 3, 7 and 11 at home, 1, 5 and 9 away.


Also it appears that the Magic fixtures will NOT be against any of the teams in the loop fixtures to avoid over saturation as in Wigan v Wire this year.

I was concerned when I saw that, on the proposals they put to the Champ clubs, the highest potential tv deal scenario they listed was the same as what it is now. They included scenarios where the deal is reduced, but not where it is increased. I really hope you're right.

Even the recent premier league deal is down on the last one so it doesn’t look good.

I saw a stat earlier that said overall viewing figures across all sports on Sky are down 12% over a two year period. In that same time Rugby Leagues viewing figures are down 27%! If they reduce the TV deal in line with that drop then the game is in trouble.

No wonder they’re considering things like a shot clock and golden point extra time.

Both Sky and BT realised that they had been played off against each other and as a result had vastly overpaid during the previous football contract negotiation. The football deals fell as they didn't force each other to pay more and more this time. I'm not saying that Sky definitely won't offer less come the next deal for RL but the falling cost of football rights link is being oversold IMO, any fall in the RL rights deal if there is one will not be to the same extent as with soccer. If people (the media included) repeat something often enough others will begin to see it as fact and you get a self fulfilling prophecy.

IMO the shot clock is more to do with all the cramp outbreaks that occur whenever a goal line dropout is to be taken. Did anyone except the Sky team suggest introducing Golden Point? Was that just not an example of Phil Clarke (or one of the others) spouting nonsense to fill an article? Golden Point ruins a game anyway as it is always an awful spectacle.

The latest “brainchild” (copied from the NRL) is for a shot clock to be introduced to reduce game times and golden point added for draw games.

Only the inept RFL could come up with a plan so ridiculous and laughable. Reducing game times whilst potentially adding time on?

The sooner this mob are out of rugby league the better. They’re destroying our game and have been for far too long.

All they are doing is considering what is already in place in the NRL. Hardly a ‘brainchild’.

The shot clock is a good thing imo, stops a lot of time wasting and speeds the game up increasing the chances of a better spectacle. The way they do it in the NRL it does require a big screen at every game.

I’m not a fan of golden point except for knockout games. Nowt wrong with a good old fashioned draw.

it seems a lot of Aussies don't like Golden POint and wish they had *proper* draws like we do. I agree. The shot clock is not a bad idea and works well there, though.

But if you want to attract a bigger audience, the main thing is clean up the ruck, in my view.

Totally agree re the " ruck" If you want to watch wrestling and mauling around on the floor etc then watch RU, the way the wrestle and slowing down of the play the ball has crept into the game in the last 10 years has greatly changed what we get as a spectacle. It needs sorting by officials and coaches or the speccies will continue to leave.

Agreed but the ridiculous obstruction rules need to be sorted out - but the biggest killer for me is the time taken by video ref decisions - so many replays of an incident takes forever and kills the momentum of the game- for any neutrals/casual watchers it must be really off putting. I would have a time/number of replays limit and then stick with the on-field decision (and have penalties if teams do not form scrums quicker - how long does it take to form up now?).

Hopefully we can agree to just give them rights to SL if that's the case. The Championship looks like an exciting competition next year even if it isn't glamorous. Maybe, for example, we can have a £35m SL deal with sky and a £5m Champ/League 1 deal with Premier/BT rather than a £40m deal for everything as it is currently. Then at least we have two broadcasters to compete with each other for the following contract, and Championship teams get an opportunity to market themselves. I can't see sky being that bothered as long as it doesn't clash, they would still be able to show the same games they would have anyway.

I can't believe people above think ruck speed and obstruction interpretations register as significant issues as we continue our gradual descent to eentually becoming a semi-pro sport, re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic!

I wonder what time it will be when a game finishes on a Thursday or Friday night if there's a draw after 80 minutes, should this come to pass? Sky's kick off times will have be brought forward again.

So dwindling tv audiences and attendances don't matter? If the game keeps dropping tv viewers from Sky then the next tv deal will be much worse than the current deal - it is all PART of making the sport attractive to not just hardcore fans like us but the wider viewing public , baffling rules and long drawn out interruptions will not help .Lets face it the Sky money is only keeping the game afloat - without it the game would be semi-pro at best. When the deal is renewed and it is , as is quite possible, on much reduced terms due to poorer viewing figures then the consequences could be dire. Cricket is going through a similar issue - the faster T20 is doing well but the 4 days game is dying on its feet.

I will freely admit there are many much bigger and more important issues but the issues I mentioned would be easily fixable and a quick win- the other issues, as we have seen with the internal squabbling over the changes to the format for next season are much harder to resolve. Sadly the game is struggling at the moment and some within the administration of the game seem to either want to bury their heads in the sand or just hope it all works out on its own. I fear for the future of the game which is a shame because it is the best sport to watch when it is played at it's best (such as the recent Saints v Wigan game) relying on just the loyal fan base is not enough to keep the game going.

I’ve always thought the next tv deal will make the current one seem like a huge payday for the sport,I think it’ll be well down on the current one and I’m not sure who’s going to pick the slack up?fantasy stuff like amazon and Netflix?not in my lifetime,Sky again depends if the Disney deal goes through I’d assume they only want rights for worldwide sport such as football,will they even be interested in a niche sport?

Very uncertain times for the sport

Yep. That’s why i said in brackets after it “copied from the NRL”

The thing that is just utterly baffling to me is that we’ve got the same game, played under different rules in the two leagues. Then you’ve got international rules, it’s just ridiculous. The RLIF need to grow a set and have both leagues playing under the same rules and the International game to boot.

The RFL bringing in Golden Point is utterly bizarre as draws generally are cracking games to watch. Bringing this in would do nothing for the dwindling crowds both on TV and the stadia.

IMHO Thursday night games is the largest contributory factor towards declining attendances. Games are played in almost-empty stadiums and the number of ST sales will have fallen simply because we have every chance of at least two of our home games being switched at short notice to a day we cant make.

There's a multitude of reasons our attendances have fallen gradually over the past few seasons (given to me by friends who no longer attend), including but not limited to:

Thursday night games.
Introduction of Super 8 fixtures.
Moving home games to Millwall & Sydney.
SW's predictable and boring rugby style (although a few have admitted that this season it has improved, excluding the poor run).
Overall feeling that the sport continues to be run by fools and the sport is in decline.

One thing I have thought about, had IL taken his eye off the ball over the last couple of years? When he came in he was a very vocal chairman for a good number of years. However he did move across to become the Chairman of the Football League a couple of years ago, during this period he was extremely quiet when it came to Wigan RL.

It's only until recently (Lam/Edwards announcement, spearheading the Ellstone campaign for changes to SL) that he's regularly been back as the face of the club. It also co-incides with his decision to resign as the Chairman of the EFL two weeks ago.

Does anyone else think that he's done that to take back a bit of 'day-to-day' control of the club? ie to address falling attendances, structure of SL, staff re-structure? He did state 'other business interests' as a reason for resigning.

Obviously I'm aware he has a number of other businesses away from sport, so maybe a case of me adding 2+2 = 5.

We need an announcement



I agree and do think there will be some further changes announced regarding the move to Robin Park. I believe some building work will commence in October/November. IL has always wanted a rugby league museum in Wigan and this maybe part of the Robin Park arena. I would imagine he would also be looking to put bar/food facilities there similar in many ways to the Aussie Leagues clubs to increase matchday revenue for the club. It'll be up to the fans then to support it.

Yep, you can go back up to ten years ago with his museum comments, that would be a good start and long over-due.

Having a bar and food facilities is the right way to go. It makes sense that everyone migrates away from that bar under the South Stand before and after each game.

A good start would be to put that Warrior IPA on Tap, something the supporters can identify with (similar to the Saints beer they have), supplies by local brewery Wily Fox.

A couple of months ago there was a big van selling Kingfisher which was pretty bewildering.

If you can get 1000+ supporters to shell out a few quid before and after each game that’s pretty good revenue into the club (and away from DW).

Does this new structure allow for players to renegotiate contracts such as say, Anthony Gelling? I couldn't see Widnes earning an immediate promotion if they do get relegated, so perhaps he has some grounds to tear up his contract?

Much like Bryson Goodwin when he had signed for Leigh prior to their subsequent relegation it will be up to Gelling, his agent and Widnes as to what is affordable or desirable. If as expected Widnes are relegated and decide they can't afford the contract then they will seek to release him from it, if he decides he doesn't want to play in the Championship he will seek a release from it. If one party is happy to see the deal through while the other isn't then they will probably look to get a SL club to pay a transfer fee.

Whether or not he could tear up the deal if Widnes didn't want to without repercussions depends on whether it contains clauses stipulating that it only applied to playing in SL.

Thank you for the good example