See bottom of my post. I have always been Pro P&R in a proper leagues comp.

But P&R has its flaws. If you don't see that then fair enough. Newcastle staying up would have been a complete overhaul and they would most likely be chasing top 10 at least - with financial clout they have.
Burnley on the other hand will struggle big time. Thats the point I am making. A massive club goes down and a West Brom/Boro type club replaces them.

I was not claiming the hard work done at East's or Miners as anything other than what it is , the people of this town wanting to play the sport and see the youngsters of the town also play the sport


As long as you attempt to ' Even things out ' it will never work , as I said previously it is impossible , at what stage is even ? , more money ? How much ? , more overseas players ? , how many ? , having one team excempt from relegation ?

It is like having one team playing with more players than another from the start , it cannot work

I would have no ,problem if the RFL want to tip millions into junior development in new area's , fine , as long as they declare what they are doing and the long term benifits it will bring

As an answer to your question , X and Y

Answer me this , is it better to have a league full of clubs that can support themselves than a bigger league full of clubs on the verge of banckruptcy ?

Will their fans care , you seem to be forgetting we are proffessional sport , now if all you want is a glorified computer game watched on TV then fine , but we are a sport , a proffessional sport built on the emotions of the people that attend the matches

Perhaps its because the RFL and the loons running it decided to call it "The Championship"

You don't have any clubs put in SL on the verge of being bankrupt.

OK Celtic are not allowed Aussies, and have to abide by Salary cap. I have asked this question a long time ago and nobody could answer it then either.
How can a chairman with loads of money get his club in SL as quickly as possible? He doesn't want to hang around, because he has the clout. Football chairmen can spend and buy success etc.
He wants to create interest in the area, and has big plans. If its not fair to even things out, how do RFL help them to compete against rules that are against this new club?.

But that's exactly the short-term planning that will cause them big problems should Mr Samuel ride off in to the sunset, as they simply didn't have enough time away from the pressures of Super League to build up their both their playing base and supporter base. In my mind, the only time they'd have been truly ready for promotion would be when they could compete on a level pegging with the Championship clubs, as otherwise it's nothing more than an artificial rise.

Its a professional sport alright. But in owden days a team could be relegated, then promoted, then champions in 3 seasons. It was possible. Because of money involved now its all different and sets clubs back years.
City would be relegated and in serious finacial trouble had it not been for us winning the biggest lottery in the world.
Being a Man U fan you would never understand what the feeling is like being 2-0 down in Div 2 playoff with a couple of mins to go. Believe you me, as a loyal fan it was heartbreaking knowing another season playing against clubs that in reality we shouldn't be.
But its sport as you say and you accept it in a proper tiered league system in football.
But P&R in football is flawed.

In 2006 we had a strong team on paper - on field a half decent coach would be able to get his team to rip us apart, Thornton showed it


The win v Hull KR was a massive "shock result" no doubting that, did we play them off the part or did they think all they had to do was turn up & win



Never been a fan of the palyoffs, belittles the week in week out league competition.
Leigh will largely make the championship playoffs as the championship will never have that many strong teams - just like SL will never be a strong competition in terms of playing strength.

The RFL made the disgusting decision scrap P & R (and ambition and to award failure.....), time will tell if it works, so far IMO its gain 10 fans in Bridgend, lose 10 fans in Whitehaven - its not expanding the game like you or I really want to see, its shipping figures around with towns and areas losing interest in RL whilst others gain it, true expansion is building up your league/ fanbase across the area's of the sport.

Whatever you may or may not think the Franchise system on field is currently not doing very well with 3 of the franchise clubs all sitting in a very lowly league position despite having had more of a head start than all promoted clubs.

They can't compete tho. Its impossible for them to, or would take decades. The very rules Leigh have to abide by are there for reasons that don't apply to a new club not in the heartlands.
In ideal world what you say should go, but if you was running the game would you have done this any different in same situation ?

Ask the same question of Mr Thomas at Leigh , how does he guarantee he gets Leigh into SL as quickly as possible , ie 2012 ?

I win the Euro Lottery next week , 50 Million , Can I guarantee that my money buys a SL spot in 2012 ?

I cannot , why ? because of the location of my club

Mr Samuels on the other hand asks the RFL what he needed to do to guarantee a SL place in 2009 , they told him exactly what he had to achieve , and they gave him the tools to achieve it

Not a problem with that

If they had stated that from the start

If we had had Mr Lewis make a statement back in 2006 " We intend to expand the SL competition into Wales , Mr Samuels has committed to finance this expansion and the Celtic Crusaders will take a 3 year Licence to play in SL in 2009 "

" We understand that some clubs will be unhappy with this but we feel that for the long term benefit of the sport we cannot miss this opportunity "

" The franchise system will cause upset to many fans and officials of clubs excluded , but we will make it our priority to help these clubs prosper in the competitions they are in and to genuinley make a success of these competitions "

I'd have lived with that , and personally I think so would many others

And how long do you stifle ambition of progressive clubs s whilst awaiting/hoping Newcastle to get upto speed or realise there potential ?

A drop down will bring them a chance to regroup, win a few games, build relationships up with lost/disgruntled fans and come back stronger - if unable,Tough.

The interest in Hull this season has been more than the interest in many other established clubs, I don't think its all bad , Wigan Athletic proved what can be done as did Fulham, if the door had been kept shut on Fulham to allow a sliding Leeds Utd to stay in we might not be looking forward to seeing a different British team in Europe next season.

IMO With 50 mill nad different CEO (:winkicon_smile.gif we would be in SL instead of Salford. A lot of neutrals said Leigh depended on the SL money more than the rest of clubs competing with us Salford/Celtic/Widnes - which truth be known is true



I agree with this and have said similar b4. The reasoning for Celtic being put in SL was laughable and embaressing. But their inclusing was the right decision that had to be made.

I spent a season watching Utd playing in the 2 nd division because we were not good enough to stay in the top division

I then spent around 13 years watching little relative success and it was only after I stopped going for financial reasons that the success came

Sorry but that is pure ' snobbery '

Sport is sport wether that is football , RL or anything you expect all the clubs to be playing to the same rules , City will be competing with Utd and all the others on a level playing field as far as the ' rules ' of those competitions

This is football of course which is not same when you see money involved. 30mill just for finishing last - its crazy money.
As I have said P&R is great for football for the interest involved, but because of the amount of money in the game now P&R is flawed.
Democracy is the correct way to go of course but that is flawed also especially when it comes down to the hard but necessary decisions against losing votes. This is for a different forum of course


Clubs like W1gan/Fulham/Hull will never win Premier League, and that goes for most of others. Money involved stifles progress. Champions League is damaging Prem, because now the top 4 are in every season it will take some miracle to change it. Because best players want to be in CL. City with all money they have still can't compete, but hopefully 5 years down the line we can. Sorry Bolton have no chance

You Utd fans don't know you are born. "relative success" is a trophy here and there - we dream of them



Also reference the snobbery, I would like to think that is untrue but maybe my posts didn't show me so well. But being from top flight big boys to the 3rd tier of football - now that is hard times. Also seeing our neighbours over the border win the treble when we are probable years away from even being in same league is a much harder pill to swallow than "relative success"

But should City be allowed to play in the premiership despite thier money

If this had happened a few years ago , say in the year 2000


Scary eh

But it would never happen. Too much interest in P&R from media, and fans. Unlike RL as mentioned further back.

So RL fans and media are not interested in P and R

But league fans are interested in P&R. How many at that Wakey-Cas relegation game a few years ago? How many at the Leigh-Whitehaven NL GF? How many at the Hull KR - Cas games??

Could also read, "because the money coming into the RFL is only shared in any consequence with 14 out of 32 member clubs the game can no longer be recognised as a true sport in the british tradition"

The government/Sport England will soon see this and the game will be excluded from possible grants and funding. European SL, christ they only play to any extent in France. Sorry but my message to DH Lewis is allez en avant et multipliez-vous

Oh and I will also add this. IMO Mr Samuels is already cashing in and gettying ready to pull out with the money in selling the lease on Brewery Field for half a million. They should be able to afford better players with that money, but i suspect that money has not and will not go anywhere near the club.

Even the European comps in football are separate from the Englsh/Scottish and Welsh Leagues, so why not in RL. With all the money in football its more feasible/affordable for a European League, but no one is interested, and if the truth be told the same goes for RL. We have effectively been press(SKY)ganged into it.

If it takes decades then so be it, but at least it would be built on solid foundations. The trouble is that [ieverything[/i in RL is a short-term solution, rather than building a Welsh League up over time to provide a solid breeding ground to develop players. After all, they've got virtually exclusive picking of an entire nation's playing pool.

Well the money that Rugby League was awarded recently from Sport England was £39 million.That is the reason there is no Great Britain anymore because they would have not got the grant otherwise.The money is being spent on monitoring the chosen players they have just anounced for the England squad. I do believe the monitoring is extreme where they are being wired up most of the time the intention is to beat the Aussies ,will any of this money filter down to the lower clubs ?Well what do you think.

The Sport England money is all allocated to grass roots development projects. It has nothing to do with England RL, SL or elite level sports (except in the context of player pathways).

:1wfh3jft

Why would the superleage teams share the money they get for there comp with teams not in Superleague, dosn't happen in football.

:1wfh3jft

The RFL have just got a better deal from sports england, more money for development of the sport.

:1wfh3jft

To compare Football and RL is plain stupid, football is played by more people than any other sport, they have more teams and intrest in those teams to alow for the leagues in Wales,Scotland,england...etc

They haven't but he has.

Typical SL fan full of their own self importance and stuff the rest of you attitude. Ahem, Championship on SKY for which the home team only gets £4000 from the Co-OP sponsorship, the club also has to spend ALL said £4000 for that game. The game is as rotten as your ground.