Also, whoever gave man of the match yesterday, I know it's all subjective, but on behalf of James harrison, you've made a mortal enemy.

He was ridiculous and got through so much work.

Perhaps I'm being harsh only Dufty will know but I think that you are giving him too much credit here

I was hoping that we had taken a calculated risk to give Tai some game time and was resting Wrench to give Tai some game time, as we’ll been to call on him at some point. Rather than being dropped as you said.
So it backfired anyway.

FWIW, here's my 2 penn'orth on yesterday...

We need another big forward, Vaughan and Harrison need to have a rest at some point
We are a work in progress & will not win anything this season
Hats off to Sam for putting the youngsters in, let's hope he sticks with it if they keep performing
Hayes is a star in the making - shows no fear, no nerves, never stops trying & looks so proud to be wearing the shirt. Barring injuries, Drinkwater wouldn't see the 1st team again for me
The young forwards need to concentrate on bulking up a bit
The video of yesterday's game should be used in training, for how to tackle &esp Hayes to watch Abdull's kicking game, that was a masterclass
We need tackling practice, lots of it
We need to move up quicker in defence
Dufty needs to practice catching & needs a carrot not stick approach
Sorry to say it, but I think thewlis needs a break from the 1st team, he was like a rabbit in the headlights yesterday

All in all, I think the Sam experiment is working

PS - how lucky were those people at the front of the north stand when the Hayes goal kick knocked the speaker (?) down? Funny how there's nothing in the reports about that. People on here have said the ground needs an overhaul, there's your proof!

It was a Thewliss try conversion kick, which knocked down the speaker in the East Stand. Stuart Middleton went straight over and came back to tell us that thankfully, no one was hurt.

My apologies for getting the kicker wrong & mixing up my compass points, seemingly they were the most important things in that comment, not the fact that the speaker was obviously not securely fixed up and came within about 3 feet of killing someone!

Indeed, I imagine the HSE (or similar) will be all over it. With reviews of other rugby grounds across the country.

Quote ="Wires71"I think it is a better side than the last few years but we were really bad. The side seems to have spirit and character but we were out muscled in the pack. We are something like 4th / 5th / 6th best side in the competition. Marshall was appointed as defensive coach under Daryl Powell. (https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ri ... warrington). Whatever he is doing did not work yesterday. We did not look solid at all, look easily stripped for numbers and very vulnerably under a high ball. Some players need to be on the tackle bags all week (Ashton for one, his attempt was shocking).'" Yes Ashton probably should have made the tackle but it was a one off, nothing to suggest his technique is deficient. Dufty’s high ball phobia is something that is far more worthy of specialist attention.

Quote ="Wires71"I think it is a better side than the last few years but we were really bad. The side seems to have spirit and character but we were out muscled in the pack. We are something like 4th / 5th / 6th best side in the competition. Marshall was appointed as defensive coach under Daryl Powell. (https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ri ... warrington). Whatever he is doing did not work yesterday. We did not look solid at all, look easily stripped for numbers and very vulnerably under a high ball. Some players need to be on the tackle bags all week (Ashton for one, his attempt was shocking).'" Yes Ashton probably should have made the tackle but it was a one off, nothing to suggest his technique is deficient. Dufty’s high ball phobia is something that is far more worthy of specialist attention.

I would also question team plan of no one actually protecting dufty when we know he's garbage/scared under these balls

Likewise disappointed thewlis didn't compete more and we didn't help him.(especially into the sun) going up against Johnstone, who's mercurial under high balls

Getting bit sick of Dufty bashing, he made one mistake in the game letting that ball bounce, for the rest of the game didn't put a foot wrong, including difusong a peppering of kicks from Abdul including an absolute monster bomb.

Most wires players on that field made more mistakes and don't get the grief.

Again made serious meters and with Williams looked a threat put some decent kicks in.

Was impressed again with Fitzgibbon put a shift in and for me
MOM.

Well I'd get some medicine cos he's gonna keep neshing out of contact and missing balls he's gonna keep getting grief

It's not the fact he made a mistake. No one has an issue with players making mistakes. It's the fact that he is unwilling to go for these kicks because he doesn't want to put himself in harms way. He doesn't even attempt to contest the ball or tackle Johnstone. And because of his past games we know this isn't just Dufty making a mistake. It's him not wanting to put his body on the line. It's ok scoring these amazing tries now and again but the top teams have better defences so he may struggle to break them down. At that point we're usually left with his main contribution to the game being tries conceded due to his fear of getting hurt.

Yes, we can try to protect him as much as possible but at times we can't and he's just going to need to man up and have a go in situations like we saw on Saturday.

Fine with Medicine just not swallowing the sh*t some are shovelling.

Let's get it right it's mistakes singular and yes it's a bit of a habit but it is massively better than before.

"Amazing tries now and again" and "main contribution being tries conceded through fear of being hurt." Do me a favour second best try scorer in super league, top metre maker, top tackle Breaker. That's more than the odd try and it's only the odd mistake. That's before even get on to his contribution to attack generally.

Dufty brings far more than he gives away.

Anyone that steps across the line to play rugby league puts their body on the line and fullbacks in particular are a position where they get clattered again and again, lost count of the number of times Dufty got smacked in that Catalan game alone.

What grinds my gears most is he's been the form fullback in super league, but even when he's playing well people are moaning, when he scored his try against Cas people behind me were moaning oh he doesn't like a pass does he, or greedy there. People just seem to be waiting to get on his back because he doesn't fit the mould of Fullback they want a Hodgson or a Penny (Lee that is).

He's the player he is and if it were true that he is more of a liability than an asset I'd call it but I don't feel he gets a fair crack.

I'm glad he's a wire.

oh yeah, i've spent the last 21 years asking for a replacement lee penny

Dufty brings more than he gives away against the bottom half of the table but I'm not sure that's the case against the top teams. Last season we had 9 league games against the teams who finished 1-4. Dufty scored 2 tries and provided 3 assists in those games. I can think of at least 2 times when he cost us a try in those games because he backed out of even attempting to make a tackle or catch a contested high ball. That's just off the top of my head.

And I don't care how much someone provides in terms of attack. It's not unreasonable to expect them to at least attempt to make a tackle or catch a contested ball. Going for it and failing is one thing. Not even trying is another.

I don't think Dufty is the reason we lost against Catalan.
I know games are not won on paper but we had more possession. Better completion rate, less errors, less penalties conceded, conceded less line breaks, less missed tackles.
We lost that game simply on our inability to defend last tackle plays. I don't remember them busting us open on tackles 1-4 all game but we just couldn't defend the last play.
There are lots of things that contribute to that. The main one for me is when we play against a team where they have powerful three-quarters we struggle to restrict metres. Against Cas, Hull FC, London we were driving back their wingers and centres early in the tackle count. Against those teams Dufty and Thewlis were fielding kicks without any defender within 10 metres of them.
But against Hull KR when we struggle to contain Ryan Hall or against Catalan with Johnstone and Davies almost every last play was a contest and a threat. I like Holroyd and his last ditch tackle an Mcilotum was brilliant but that game was another level for him. Tai didn't quite offer the block protection for Thewlis when fielding kicks and there were a lot of other things we could have done better like putting pressure on Abdul so that his kicks wouldn't have been as accurate.
Overall I am not too down about the result. Better to get a whack in the ear now and learn from it. (As long as we do learn from it)

actually, i've come back to this, you mention hodgson there, there's no way Bert would have neshed out of that tackle, granted he might have got himself KTFO'd but theres no way he would have just let the winger take an easy pick up and caused the entire ground to groan at the same time.

Ah the flat track bully argument, because everyone else was so good in those top 4 games.

What's his stats against the top four teams this year, he's already surpassed last year in 3 games. So you're flat track bully argument is tosh.

We're playing a system that plays to his strengths, he made a single mistake in a game that for me wasn't the cause, (in fact he was behind video ref for me)

He does go for kicks, he does try for last ditch tackles, but he also sometimes makes a bad decision and leaves them I could show you a dozen examples of other super league fullbacks doing the same.

I wouldn't have another SL fullback (or even Lee Penny

) and I do feel that we are quick to get on his back for very little this year when we should celebrating what he is doing this year.

For me the Dufty debate is a non starter, the right edge defence is the main issue but I'm hoping we can get some consistency there we will be there or there abouts. I thought DDIs analysis was spot on.

I think the next two games will tell us an awful lot about our season.

I agree with Wires71 in that he made a poor attempt to swipe the ball and go the length - but I don't think he even fully committed to that plan. The correct play was to put the brakes on a little, allow Johnstone to collect it and wrap him up or at the very least slow him down. Still glad we've got him though.

I think that is what is the crux of the problem. I was a big Brett fan (never saw Bert play), a goalkicking fullback, brave as a lion that could also throw a decent pass.

That is not Matt Dufty (except for the decent pass)

However I do believe he has strengths that can get us to the top. I remember watching the out of your league podcast with Gleese and he talked about building teams to get the best out of certain players and skillets.

I think that criticising Dufty for the odd missed catch or tackle is fine, I get it it's frustrating, but I feel the level of stick he gets and the quickness that people revert to the Dufty chickens out or Dufty is a poor defensive full back isn't proportionate, isn't Wires worst problem and is down to perception of what a fullback rugby player should be rather than what is actually going on.

Yep, I agree. I'm not trying to pin all the blame on Dufty for us losing on Saturday. Just pointing out an incident that is part of a wider issue with his attitude.



We're currently in the top 4 so there are only 3 other teams, of which we have played 1 twice, as you know. He has scored a try in each game against Catalan but also cost us a try in each game by not even attempting to contest kicks so I'm not sure how that is tosh. I imagine it will look the same after we have played Wigan and Saints





I would love you to show me another dozen examples of what we saw from Dufty on Saturday as I think you'll struggle to find any clubs bar the bottom few where this had occurred. The only other player with similar tendencies is Field, but he seems to have gotten better in those situations since he first came into superleague.



I agree but would extend the period into the 2nd June. At that point we will have played Wigan as well. And also Catalans a third time before we have even played Wigan which is just stupid.

I know Duftys strengths. I'm not trying to say he is a terrible player. In attack he is fantastic but I'll never be on board with someone who wimps out of certain situations because it's those types of players that usually end up costing you the big, tight games.

For top 4 read last year's top 4 for comparison ie HKR and he only has 1 against Catalans but yeah let's see after Wigan and Saints, but I'm certain his record will be better this year.

I think I can quite comfortably find a dozen incidents in Super League of players letting a ball bounce or not going for a high ball. I'd also agree with you on Field in that he is a similar (yet not as good) player as Dufty and that his defence has improved particularly his cover tackle I don't get why you can't see the same in Dufty.

I understand your frustations with Dufty and that these don't frustrate me as much because of his positives, and I really hope that you aren't right that it costs us in a big game, and that we are talking about how Duftys try won us a GF/challenge cup.

What I genuinely hope for is that we don't have to have these discussions and that our major issues is the trophy cabinet is too small and the bill for cleaning our silverware is crippling.

Hang on we’re not talking 2nd half of the season Ben Barba style defence!

Dufty plain and simple on three occasions has chickened out of attempting to catch a high ball.. that’s not a mistake that’s a problem within Dufty himself.. as good as he has been these last few months it doesn’t excuse him for not having the balls to make a decent effort catching the high ball..

The only one harking on about past errors is you.



His tackle attempt in that game was pretty poor and cost a try, hence my comment. I think most reasonable posters on here would agree with me.