He's had a ropey few weeks for the first time in three years, WOW. I'm sure it'll all work itself out, he'll have a big game sooner rather than later and we'll all talk about him positively again. He's a machine, simple as. His best position is right second row, this left thing is a no-no, he looked ropey on the left.

He runs good lines off Briers, he runs good lines for teammates too, he comes through as a dummy runner and attracts defenders that's created space for Gleeson and now Bridge and i'm sure every single one of his teammates appreciate his contribution because if there's a hard yard to be made, he'll make it.

Quote ="RyanWire" Quote ="Paul Youane"Are you seriously suggesting that b) Clough is as good as Westwood?'" this link says clough makes more yards per carry, more tacles misses less tackles makes less errors conceeds less penalties www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009'" '" Andy Gregory once said something about statistics and clipboards, but the exact quote escapes me. I'm pretty sure it was "I don't need someone with a clipboard to tell me who's played well and who hasn't when I've just watched the game for myself".

Quote ="RyanWire" Quote ="Paul Youane"Are you seriously suggesting that b) Clough is as good as Westwood?'" this link says clough makes more yards per carry, more tacles misses less tackles makes less errors conceeds less penalties www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009'" '" Andy Gregory once said something about statistics and clipboards, but the exact quote escapes me. I'm pretty sure it was "I don't need someone with a clipboard to tell me who's played well and who hasn't when I've just watched the game for myself".

Quote ="RyanWire"this link says he has conceeded less penalties despite playin more games. Ironically wetwood has played less becaus he was banned for 6 games for ill disciplin www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009'" Why do people look at stats in isolation? Westwwood has played two-thirds the amount of games, yet has made more tackles. The likelihood is you will concede penalties when defending, it is the law of averages.

Quote ="RyanWire"this link says he has conceeded less penalties despite playin more games. Ironically wetwood has played less becaus he was banned for 6 games for ill disciplin www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009'" Why do people look at stats in isolation? Westwwood has played two-thirds the amount of games, yet has made more tackles. The likelihood is you will concede penalties when defending, it is the law of averages.

I like Ben Westwood and what he offers to the team but I think people get on his back due to the fact the penalities he gives away are generally needless.

He does all the hard work for us, is often top of the tackle count and hit ups for us and i do agree that will often lead to giving away some penalities.

However to pull at a leg when rolling away, lie on top for too long, put hands in at the play the ball and give good field position away is extremely frustrating. Once Ben has cut these penalities out of his game there is nothing to stop him becoming one of the best second rowers in the league.

I see what you are getting at but i don't believe that is true in BW case as the penalties are generally for stupidity, for instance lying on a player too long when dealing with a tight up ref and purposeful swinging arms.

Can't fault his enthusiasm though

Having been the original critic of Westwood on this thread, I'd just like to point out that the above quote is my thoughts exactly.

It's just so damn frustrating that at EVERY match, you know that he is going to do one of the described infringements, thus my description of him as 'brainless'.

I fully accept that if he sorts this out we have a potentially great second rower....at the moment we have a bit of a liability.

Rather have a one trick Pony than a no trick piggy. As for Westwood, he's not in his very best form at the moment, but he'll come again soon.

i didnt look in isolation if you look at the penalties per tackle made westwood is higher so to answer the original question yes i do expect you to believe that his discipline is worse than hocks

if he commits more fouls then his discipline is worse. its what it says on the tin.

we need to remember Benny's old tackling technique, which imo has improved massively. He is mr 110% which no one can knock. I feel as the team slowly progresses benny may find he is too much a loose cannon for the team.
As for the number 9 i feel he is good for 2 things. a) a slow ball and b) a flat ball. for me a hooker runs the line and gives the ball to the right man, leaving the defence guessing his move until the very last second. Clarke has not shown any qualities for me. we have far a better hooker on the bench in Higham, who changes our game immensly when he comes on. Clarke will always have a space in the widnes team while Cullen is there!

I rate BW highly ok every player has little dip in form now and again,but it does not make him a bad player overnight. The one area of his game which imo he could work on is off loading in tackle.