The title of this thread is Boycott Superleague 2015!
Why on earth would I stop watching the game and team I love?

We all need to get our heads around the new formula, but to suggest that we Boycott the 2015 season is liking a Turkey voting for Christmas or cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I have not read the new formula but I have read on the BBC that League points accumulated prior to the Play Offs in some way count during the Play Offs, which could mean that it will be more difficult to win SL from 4th or 5th. This should make regular season games even more important.

Boycotting something that hasn't even happened? That must be a first. RL being innovative, again.

I think Super League 1 teams are going to come into CC one round later.

Having tried to understand the farce that will be the new format, I would summise it in the following way :

The playoffs have playoffs that includes league points depending upon which playoffs your team is playing-off in.

All we need now is for the Circus to be an announced as the new SL sponsor. This is based upon our game being run by Clowns.

So will the season ticket only cover 11 home games then ,with the seven fixtures in the play off league of 8 having to be paid for ? That won't go down very well.

Do we still have the magic round?
If so, when?
If so, they have to make sure this extra fixture is as fair as they can make it
Look at the nailed on fixtures of Wakey v Cas and KR v FC, if there is clear daylight between the teams during the season then it's unfair if one drops into the middle tier based on that one result in which they played in a mismatch.
The 1v2 and 3v4 format would have to be adopted.

I'll be honest the format neither bothers me or confuses me and I'm sure clubs can think of new ticketing strategies to suit the system.
Probably a similar system to the ones the Broncos are adapting to for 2014 that Barnet FC use.

Start of season

A.1
A.2
A.3
A.4
A.5
A.6
A.7
A.8.
A.9
A.10
A.11
A.12

B.1
B.2
B.3
B.4
B.5
B.6
B.7
B.8
B.9
B.10
B.11
B.12

Two leagues of 12 all play each other home and away like and normal league, at the end of this those that finish in postions
A.1 to A.8 are top tier
A.9 to B.4 are 2nd tier
B.5 to B.12 are third tier

-------------
Top Tier keep the points they had, then after playing each other once the top four teams go into a semi final of 1v4 and 2v3.

That is easy to follow
------------

2nd tier play each other once but they DONT carry their points over as obviously one set of teams were winning more than they were losing and vice versa.

They start from scratch and they are playing for league position in the next season, the right to play the big boys with the bigger crowds.
Top 4 play in the top 12 league A.1 to A.12 positions
The bottom 4 play in the bottom league of 12... B.1 to B.12

This is how the promotion/relegation happens, it's technically a playoff promotion relaxation league.

you following?
----------------
The 3rd tier are playing to not get relegated out of the whole system, the bottom clubs dropping out of the whole
A 1 to 12
B 1 to 12 system


it really is easy to understand and the more I write the more I'm swayed into liking the system.
It means that if someone rich comes in and fancies buying his home town team, he doesn't have to worry about franchise criteria he can just pump it straight in and potentially compete with the big boys, Fax, Fev, Leigh..remember Barrow having money, they have an easier path.

I just hope ambition and pocket size are realistic and ambition doesn't get bigger than the pockets.

Im all for the Circus

but Clowns running the game ,





we do enough , I would want extra for that , unless you want to a Clown ?

In terms of the making regular season games more important part of it, this solves one part but not another. You need to be in the top 4 at the end of the season. Nobody will be doing a Leeds and winning from 5th.

However if you're in the top 4, the only advantage to coming 1st or 2nd is that you get a home tie in the semi final. There is no more 'week off' and no more 'second bite at the cherry'.

As to whether it still pays to do the whole tactical rotation thing, resting players, this depends on how strong you are and how much of a cushion you are likely to have above 5th. If you're the type of team that's likely to come 3rd or 4th, and you drop a couple of games in the first part of the season and are running 5th when the league splits, bear in mind you are having to play catch up in the final rounds against other top 8 teams, there won't be the easier teams at the bottom any more. So it makes it slightly harder to catch up if you're outside the top 4 at the split.

But for the strongest couple of teams in the league, it will probably still pay to do the tactical rotation. Generally there are about 10 to 14 points between the teams that finish 1st and 5th, so if you're a team that under normal circumstances would finish top you have about 5 to 7 games slippage over a season. I've used the historic 10 to 14 point margin because although you could argue that under the new system with the final rounds being played just between the top 8 it may be a little tighter, there's also a chance that over the past few years the teams that have finished top have dropped a couple of games through squad rotation anyway so otherwise they would have been even higher ahead.

Where the real criticism will come in is if we have a situation where the club finishing top is 8 or so points ahead of the club finishing 4th (as often happens), and then the club finishing 4th wins the playoff semi final away from home: boom, the league leaders are out. This is the same thing that happens in the rugby union Premiership and it gets criticised.

And whats the incentive to finish top rather than second? You play your playoff against the team finishing 4th rather than the team finishing 3rd.

Overall I think in terms of changing incentives the main changes are:

- teams that finish 9th-12th have the incentive of fighting to stay in Super League, whereas currently they have nothing
- teams that are in the 3rd-6th type of spaces will be fighting for top 4 spots, wheres previously they were guaranteed playoffs in a top 8
- there will be no more easy first round of playoffs (or week off) where some teams get to play 7th or 8th ranked team

What it doesn't address is:

- there is no extra incentive for finishing top rather than second
- there can be a large gap in points over the league table between 1st and 4th, and 4th only has to win one playoff semi final away from home to knock them out
- in the end it all boils down to the last two weeks of the season and who is fit/in form versus who isn't

No playoff system is perfect but this is a system that incentives teams to play rather than coast

After reading through the detail I quite like it. It's not perfect but I think it will make for a greater number of meaningful games and the potential for an ambitious club to see a route to SL from Championship 1 albeit with strong financial backing. However I would hate to see some of the criteria from licensing such as stadia, youth development etc dropped.

The bigger issues not addressed through structure change are about finance, governance, sponsorship and player development especially with the farce over the changes to the U20's last year. I'd like to see those issues addressed before this season starts.

Plus the spectators and clubs won't know until the last week of the 12 team season whether there will be three or four home games in the 8 game part.
That will give the clubs and the RFL less than a week to sort out fixtures (it could be as little as four days if a club plays its last game on Sunday and is selected for the Thursday match)

What about the teams who have shared facilities (Wigan , Hull , Huddersfield, Leeds, Salford etc) how do their games get scheduled in the one week timeframe?

International break

Whats the difference between finishing 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th?

It boils down to the same thing: you have to win two straight knock out games. If you lose one you are out.

The only incentive is to get a home tie, but is home advantage really that important in the playoffs anyway?

Over the past five years there have been 10 playoff semi finals, 6 home wins 4 away wins. That doesn't suggest home advantage is a real decisive advantage especially as you would expect the home team to be the 'better team' as the playoff system should have rewarded them by putting them at home.

2009: Leeds beat Catalans; Saints beat Wigan
2010: Saints beat Hudds; Wigan lost to Leeds
2011: Warrington lost to Leeds; Saints beat Wigan
2012: Wigan lost to Leeds; Saints lost to Warrington
2013: Warrington beat Hudds; Wigan beat Leeds


If as a Warrington fan you were given the choice of two alternative scenarios:

1. Play every game as if it counts and finish top but then take what comes in terms of fitness/form in the playoff semi finals

2. Strategically manage the squad so that you are ready to peak in the playoff semis, even if that means dropping a handful of games in the season that could mean instead of finishing 1st you finish 2nd or 3rd (or even 4th?)

Which would you take?

Like I said nothings perfect, it matters not how you approach it and fitness/injuries are just the luck of the draw. Look at us picking up as many serious injuries as you're likely to see in the final turning us from being in control to having nothing but slight resistance in the 2nd half.

They could introduce 2 legs with an away try ruling for the draw or sudden death.

Top of the tree is the only way people won't argue but we have steered ourselves away from that.

My own personal preference would have been a return to 12 team Super League with home and away fixtures, MM weekend and five team play-offs to the old format. Truth is that there would never be a majority of clubs willing to accept the reduced revenue from a drop in the number of fixtures that would have given.

From what we have been given then for me (just considering the top 8 structure as not really thought about in any depth what being in the middle 8 would mean):

[uNegative[/u

1) selling season ticket is going to be crazy. There is a real risk that the final 8 set of fixtures could see crowds like the current play-off systems get if not part of season ticket. However if they are included in the season ticket then at the start of season the fan won't know whether those fixtures are three home games or four, whether they are against Wigan, Hull, Leeds and Catalans or London, Wakefield, Sheffield and Batley. Convincing that fan to fork-out the increased price season ticket (more fixtures = more £'s) is not an easy sell.

2) Although in truth its not all that complicated, as can be seen from the OP's post, some people will be turned-off by the supposed gimmickness/complicatedness of the format as it doesn't follow a straight home and away, first past the post basis.

3) In-sufficient reward for finishing first in a 1 v 4 and 2 v 3 play-off structure.

4) Perception of the competition from outside looking in is lunacy and change for change's sake which makes it difficult to attract credibility from a new audience or the southern based media.

5) I worry about investment in youth with the return of a quasi promotion and relegation system. I don't know what would happen to say the academy set-ups of Wakefield and Castleford if they are the two clubs relegated into the middle tier or what sort of academy set-up would be operated by say Batley and Sheffield if they were the two clubs replacing them. This is not even considering what would happen if one of the clubs that are one of the 10 RFL funding-supported academies (from 2015 forward) were to be relegated.


[uPositives[/u

1) Top eight knock-out play-offs have gone. Some play-off games under the top 8 have been embarrassingly poor no-contests.

2) Two dead-weights have been dropped from the top flight and goodbye to 4 of the fore-gone conclusion games.

3) Every point now counts. Top four will not be a given for any team. Wigan, Warrington, Leeds, Hull, Catalans and St Helens will all be expecting to battle it out alongside Koucash's Salford in the top four play-offs. It will make it interesting to see how coaches rotate their squads now they are faced with additional fixtures and the loss of the four "gimme" games that shouted out "rotate" previously.

4) It should provide a higher level of competition game to game to watch with fewer Hull KR v London SKY matches to endure.

5) Clear guaranteed pathway for clubs to progress if they have the resources to invest (should be balanced against potential spending of money that isn't there in a desperation to maintain standing or following un-realistic dreams of betterment.


Couple of things I would like to see brought in with the new system are:

1) don't call the seven fixtures between the top-eight "play-offs". That is a tarnished term after the experience of top eight play-offs. I'd suggest calling it something like "The Super Eight Series" for marketing purposes with straight forward semi-finals and Grand Final to follow (see next item though).

2) I would have the team finishing first after the Super Eight Series games qualifying straight into the Grand Final with 2nd and 3rd playing off for the right to play them. Big reward for finishing first (and one week off could come in handy as well) and with only top three having a shot at the big one every game from week one of the competition would truly count.

3) Grand Final to be a double-header with two teams from the second tier either playing for a "plastic" trophy for being the best of the not very good teams or a play-off for the final spot of the four clubs who will be part of the top 12 the following season (although this is to an extent rewarding poor performance with a place at Old Trafford). Whilst not drawing in tens of thousands of extra ticket sales it should be at least six thousand or so, which would help in getting "full-house" signs up at Old Trafford.


Whether its the best solution or not I'm not sure however I really hope it is for the good of the game and we can stick with the structure for the foreseeable future.

Less scope as well for the manipulation to the fixture list to accommodate when those stadiums shared with football clubs re-seed the pitch to suit the needs of the primary tenants. We could well see more of what Wigan and Huddersfield have done in the past of playing home fixtures at the likes Widnes and Halifax.

I agree the commercial element of the season ticket package needs thought, but quickly I can see:
1. a 15 game ticket with the 15th game being home or away
2. a 14 game ticket with a game 15 voucher at say £10

The short play offs should stop complacency caused by knowing you don't get another chance

As Paul Youane says as part of his great analysis above, he would rather return to that 5 team playoff format that we had in 98 to 01. If you are to have a playoff, that was the best form of giving advantages, it was one of gradual elimination that placed the onus on teams finishing 4th or 5th to keep winning and winning and teams higher up with more direct routes to Old Trafford.

The 1v4, 2v3 is the weakest part of this new system. It has made even more of a lottery of the top four, which is where most of the criticism was: when people were talking about teams not taking every game seriously, they were meaning teams like us, Leeds or Wigan (or back in the day, Saints under Millward). They were not meaning the teams whose incentives have improved under the new system: the ones around the margins of 4th-6th, or the ones 9th-12th.

So in terms of addressing that issue of every game counting, they have made it count more for teams below the ones at the top but possibly made the league season [iless[/i important and the playoffs more of a lottery for those at the top.

However there is one hope for this part of the system. As PY mentions, the top 4 teams are now fairly even (us, Wigan, Hudds, Leeds) but what really determines whether it will make the 'fight for top four' competitive is if we can get to a situation where there are two more teams in that mix. In the Premier League for instance, although people complain about how nowadays there's too much emphasis on "top four" that actually brings a lot of intensity to the competition, because say Man City and Chelsea are guaranteed top four, you have Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Spurs and Everton who are basically in a 5 team for 2 spots fight. That makes for a good competition.

Our new system will work for intensity, if we could say that Saints and at least one of Hull, Catalans or Salford were all on around the same level as the top four teams.

I think it is a brilliant idea. The fact that we will get to see an extra game against the bigger teams is undoubtedly going to appeal to the spectators and the sky viewers, but as is evident on this thread, there is no pleasing some people.

You could probably have a top 4 system like this as well.

Week 1:
1st v 2nd - winner to OT
3rd v 4th - loser out

Week 2
Loser of 1st v 2nd plays winner of 3rd v 4th - winner to OT



This format means 1st or 2nd only has to win one game to get to OT, and has the benefit of a second chance, or a week off

3rd or 4th have to win two games to get to OT and have no second chance and no week off

Out of interest I would love to know who was for and against and the reason they felt compelled to vote the way they did.
What do the guys in the for camp see that those in the against camp are not and what are the against camp seeing that the for camp are not?

Why did Catalan allegedly abstain?

The new top four play off is probably one of the stronger aspects of the system. There were a lot of complaints about the current play offs where you can end up playing the same team twice in a row, get a second life, teams in the play offs with no chance of getting to the final, teams winning it from 5th etc etc. Top four is relatively brutal - you need to be there at the end of the season, and with probably 5/6 teams that are fairly evenly matched, it will be very competitive to get into the top four. So it should mean all games are important as the top teams scrap for points. Plus it is a straight knock out.

However, whilst it would be unfair to describe these changes as re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, the RFL are certainly not acting on the core problem we have in the sport - lack of income. We need some hard nosed ideas as to how we bring in, say a 50 percent increase in cash. Even if these changes are successful, they are not going to be a game changer. It's more likely the whole system will be scrapped again in three years time.

The RFL could approach universities and businessmen and say "Bring money into the sport or an idea to make money and we'll give you x% of profit on the idea or the money you bring in".