My team (Saints) have Cunningham in charge, one of the best that has been (or probably will be), but he's struggling at the moment.

I once heard someone say that a top player knows what to do, but they are unable to communicate this effectively to players who do not possess their same ability. As you get better at what you do, your ability to communicate your understanding, or to help others learn that skill, diminishes.

Arguably, the greatest coach of all time, in any sport, is Vince Lombardi. He never played professional football, but was a successful head coach. On the other hand, Johan Cruyff was an excellent player, but did well as a manager.

Back to RL: I could be wrong, but I don't think Wayne Bennett did anything of note in his playing career, but is the most successful RL head coach.

What do you think?

There is no correlation. If someone is a good player then they are a good player, if they are a good coach then they are a good coach. Some might be good at both but that's just because they are good at both, their ability as a player has no bearing one way or the other because they are completely different and unrelated skillsets. It's like a great actor might not be able to direct movies and a great director might not be able to act. They are completely distinct roles and being good at one doesn't automatically make you good (or bad) at the other. The sooner people and especially club chairmen realise this the better, it really isn't a difficult concept.

Well most coaches are of course former players but a lot of the time they tend to have only played for a few years, maybe hot an injury and went into coaching that way. I guess this gives them more time to learn the coaching ropes and what it entails to become good coaches. Im thinking of someone like Wayne Bennett for example.
And then we get onto former players and I'm gonna use one close to my heart: Lee Radford. Great player, won just about everything going, played for a long time, about 15-16 years, and pretty dull and uninspiring as a coach. Into his third year as hull boss and has taken us to two of our worst finishes in super league with an 11th and an 8th and this year with the big money squad are playing some of the most depressing rugby in years. Anyway that's just one example of each side of the point. I'm going back to sleep zzzzzzzz

Of course they can. I posted this on the Wigan forum too. The problem in this country is that top players get fast tracked into the head coach job years before they are ready. They need to learn their trade in coaching working their way up from youth teams, reserves (for those who have them) into assistant. I think they should be an assistant to at least 2 head coaches to give a different perspective on how to do things. Then, as long as they are ready move into the head coach job. IMO it's a 10 to 15 year apprenticeship.

Yes they can but it is difficult to make the transition within the same club coaching some of the players who are former team mares.

Powell was a player at Leeds but struggled as a coach there, he went off and learned his trade elsewhere and is now doing an excellent job at Castleford.

Cunningham seems to struggling at Saints but over the years he has played under some very successful coaches there so has had the opportunity to learn from them, only time will tell.

That's my point. He went to learn his trade. He became director of rugby at Leeds and learned from Smith, iirc he spent time at York and Leeds Tykes before getting the featherstone job.

Yes they can & yes they have. Malcombe Reiley, Johny Whitley, Elery Hanley, Shaun Edwards, to name a few who did, Gary Schofield a classic case of one who has not. It is a matter of being capable & willing to do it. There are few oportunities & I think a lot of clubs go for a known face, I know of a few who have never been players who have managed to coach at pro level Gary Wikinson at HKR is one but in the top league I think it is only London that may have had a coach who was not a player.

Never heard of any of the first three....

Bob Fulton, Brian Noble(?) and one of the best ever; Eric Ashton.

I disagree with your main point/question; it's not a negative correlation between quality as a player and the ability to be a good coach, but you've got the right word in there - communicate!

You've mentioned Cruyff, in our sport there is Mal Meninga, and across many sports there are numerous examples of great players being great coaches too.

But it's all about communication! To be a good coach you need to articulate your point, your tactics, your ethos with the required motivation so that everyone understands and buys into it. If you cannot communicate that then that's where you struggle. That's down to the intelligence and experience of an individual. That's why coaches with little playing experience can become good coaches; they have the intelligence to understand the game without having played it to a high standard and can also communicate their point across but so can coaches who've played the game to the very highest level if they have the ability to communicate well.

This.

If you have not heard of any of the three (despite my rubbish spelling of their names) it proves you know nothing about the game.

Agree with buckleystreet wire.
There is a correlation between great players and great coaches and aspects from been a top player can help but in any sport they rarely make great coaches.
Great players can usually take instruction very well, have personal desire, love the combative/competetive nature, the intense pressure that jacks them up into performing. They are often self motivated, want to get better at what they do and feel frustrated at others that lag or are shall we say lazy.
There are the ridiculously 'naturally gifted'..or so it seems, these are often higher functioning, they see things and can make decisions quicker, have the mental capacity to know what is the right/best thing to do. Hoever they often have off field issues, dissappear in games but when they do stuff it's described as mercurial or amazing natural talent. Mick Crane of Hull FC, Rovers and Leeds was one of these, he would never make a good coach in a month of Sundays. I don't think he could or really wanted to though think he dabbled.

Grcoaches as said have to be great communicators, they have to be great man managers, have understanding of people and how they work in any given environ, be able to motivate, know when to chide and when not, see when players have issues, read their body language and demeanor. Sports psychology is still massively underestimated in RL circles IMHO.
You have to be intelligent enough to be able to break down component aspects of everything, understand why x happens when a, b and c go before. Make cogent plans taking into account your teams strengths and weaknesses and that of your opponent...and the list goes on.

Pretty much every player will have done nothing else except play rugby, whilst some attributes might help, it in no way prepares you to be a good middle manager, that takes years of education and experience.
Being a good middle manager in industry/traditional business hierachy would actually qualify you more with very little RL knowledge than most players.
They simply do not have what it takes including the very best of them to become competent coaches.

As has been said it’s not as simple as being great player = bad coach and average/poor player = good coach.

However some of our best players have been poor coaches e.g. Schofield and Alex Murphy. I think that is more down to personality and how they communicate than anything else.

As has been said Bobby Fulton and Malcolm Reilly were amongst the best in the world in their days as players and again as coaches.

Then again the best British coach of his era in this country was a below average player – Peter Fox.

John Monie wasn’t a top class player either nor was Jack Gibson or Wayne Bennett but they were amongst the best of that era from Australia.

Cunningham’s in the spotlight because of who he is and where he is. He’d have been better taking a job at another club without that burden. Same applies to James Lowes.

Not sure how this was relevant on the Wigan forum as Shaun Wane was never a great player.

There is no real correalation between playing talent and coaching ability. However great players are more likely to get an earlier opportunity to coach and may well get more second chances purely because there are always some who think that there is a relationship between the two.

If I were looking for a coach for a SL club I'd be scouting assistant coaches in the NRL. After the success of Maguire at Souths, Robinson at the Roosters and the fact Nathan Brown walked into the Knights job I'd be surprised if a stint in SL wasn't seen as a good stepping stone into the NRL.

Its not about nationality, its the simple fact that the pool of quality coaches in Australia is far larger, and they are exposed to the very latest in tactics, conditioning etc in the best competition there is.

TBH that's another reason why I have a sneaking admiration for the much maligned McNamara. He probably could have hung around in England and picked up a SL gig, but he's gone to the NRL and is learning under Robinson. He at least has the humility to know he needs to learn.

The thread was about Cunningham.

Top players like

Reilly, Hanley, Edwards as said above
Ashton, Alex Murphy, Frank Myler

Australian's such as Mal Meninga, Bob Fulton, Chris Anderson, Ricky Stewart, Laurie Daley, Arthur Beetson

Depends how far down the list of players you go to still call them great and how far down the list of coaches you go to still call them successful.

So, of course they can. Some do some don't.

The context is irelevant, Wane was not a great player.

What are you talking about? I, nor anyone else other than you has mentioned Wane. There is a thread on the Wigan forum about Cunningham on which I posted something very similar to what I posted on this thread.

Jim Sullivan, Vince Karalius, Roger Millward (had reasonable success as a coach). So in answer to the question "can" the answer is an emphatic YES given the relatively high proportion of Hall Of Famers that have had successful coaching careers.