You can only hope.

Many in Oz wanted an England v Oz Final last year with England winning at the death for the good of the game.


Most Aussies do not get that much satisfaction beating the Kiwis as they are seen as the little Brother.
Same in defeat, having the other side of the ANZAC's get a win is no where near as painful as being beaten by Pommies.


The International game will not get its status pack until England/GB become competitive and I worry that I will not be around to see it.

Not just jagging a one off game or one series as the Kiwis have but to see every Test match be a real contest and Test.

I’m not blaming Origin for the downturn in fortunes of international League – there are other factors there of which GB/England’s lack of competitiveness is one

It could well be barrier to international league regaining its rightful place though if the attitude remains that it is the pinnacle of the sport when it quite clearly is not

International League will get its rightful place when England steps up to the plate.

England's lack of quality has been the major factor in the current state of affairs and I doubt things will change as the England v Exiles game exposed the state of play, busted old Bums beating the future depth of England's best.

SOO is the pinnacle.

Would you put all you own on the Kiwis beating Australia twice in a row? winning a three match Test Series, a five match series.
I doubt it.
Look at how many times the Kiwis have beat Australia (given its in finals) a couple of times in 6 years.

I believe the International scene has changed forever

England will never dominate
The international scene will be an unsatisfactory challenge between Oz and the Kiwis with players 98% drawn from the NRL.
The fact the Kiwis have done so well in a couple of major finals have two big reasons.
1. the bulk of the players are from the NRL and have been trained and developed there (1 or 2 SL players)
2. Nrl Coaches including Benny as advisor to NZ Test team (how is Bellamys disciple going with Parramatta)
3. Several key players have been Aussies playing for NZ including the Kiwi recent Captain.

i wouldnt worry. when there is a raising of the NRL salary cap. There will be a full squad worth of english men in Oz.

But will they be Test standard?

Burgess and Ellis have been sideline casualties often

The other West Tigers player from Wigan that was "a revelation has disappeared"

Mr Worrincy is setting the Windsor Wolves on fire

Agreed



I really don’t know how you can say this when the best players from SOO combine to form the Kangaroo team and then get beat by NZ in the last two finals – meaning that Australia currently hold neither of the two international trophies s on offer



Correct – the Kiwi’s are 4 Nations and World Champions – I thought that the Australian mentality meant that they were champion sports men – it doesn’t matter how many times you beat NZ if they win when it matters

I guess you have had it easy for so long that you refuse to believe that the tide has turned



Good job we didn’t say that to you in the period from 1921 to 1950 when you couldn’t beat us – at least we kept giving you a chance



Well, if State or Origin is played between teams drawn from the NRL then what is the problem with the International teams being drawn from one competition

State rivalry and then International rivalry – but surely the latter should be a bigger deal for the whole country to get behind?

A title is just that, when you won it in
a snapshot in time and a Trophy to put in your Cabinet.
Is the New Zealand team a better team than the Australian team currently?
The last match they played suggests not.
The 1921 to 1950 quote is a bit sad.
I do not remember WWII either.
We have kept turning up to 3 and 4 Nations and humiliating GB/England too?

The Ball is in Englands Court it has been for 3 decades.
Its up to you to step up, not Oz or NZ to go backwards.
The facts are you are a million miles away from consistently beating Australia and the game in the UK is hanging on by the skin of its teeth, half of the teams are just rubbish, the other half are barely professional.
Those are the facts.
Australia needs to hang on to the SOO as it may be the only game at the top in 20 years time.
England's failures to build the game and the School and Junior development to make a competitive Super League is not Australia's fault..
England has built NO foundations for 40 years and relied on Player and Coach imports rather than address the problem and develop the local products.
Englands SL is a product of the short sighted Club and RFL taking the easy import option.
Borrowed time is my opinion.

If they were better they would have won?

The common consensus is the England Coach is total Rubbish.

Who from England should replace him..
I rest my point.
The game in the UK is terminal and seeing a bunch of retired old Men beat the best England can put up last week confirms that to all.
Only one Exile player was a perhaps current Test player against Englands best.

A title is the proof of who is the best team – are Gold Coast a better team than St George just because they beat them last time out? Of course not

What is the point of having international competitions if you just put your fingers in your ears shout Nah Nah Nah and ignore the results – the Kiwi’s are the best team, accept it and move on

Why is the 1921 to 1950 quote sad – I am merely demonstrating that things are always transitory and just because we haven’t beaten you for 30+ years you shouldn’t say we will ‘never’ dominate as you didn’t beat us for 30 years either...

It is another subject and another thread but I have posted may statistics to demonstrate that the game of rugby League is in great health in the UK and growing in many aspects (school and junior teams, truly national amateur competition etc)

That’s all by the by, what really worries me is this...



It is exactly this mentality that will stop RL from growing – just watch your neighbours host the RU World Cup later this year and see how that sport encourages international competition and doesn’t throw teams to the wilderness just because they can’t compete

And that's not just an Australian attitude - we did just the same to France

Only been in Australia for 5 years so seen plenty of the sport in the UK. Many Wembly finals and been to pretty much every ground in the UK (except Crusaders but do I care on that note......erm no).

I was a sceptic on the quality of the Aussie game until I came here and watched it week in week out. If the standard was this high in the UK and there was an administration running the game who knew what they were doing, I have no doubt it would equal RU. As for SOO damaging the international game, sorry mate but you are so far off the mark.

The RFL are to blame here, nobody else. Aus v NZ is a spectacle in its own right, but Aus GB no longer cuts it because the GB team is second rate. Until the RFL realise this and stop looking through their rose tinted specs at 'how strong the game is in the UK' and channel more of the Sky money into the grass roots of the game it will only get worse and nobody will give a rats about GB games, home or abroad.

Littlerich, scr-ew the Hunslet game, get me a recording of the Fev v Fax game pleeeeasse

What a match !!! Another Golden-point drama. We are the GP kings!!!! Roll on tacky Blackpool

I agree that its up to GB/England to become competitive to bring internationals to life. How the heck we do that is a whole separate topic.

My only issue with Origin is that players have to be eligible to play for Australia. Jack Reed would qualify to play for England and is already better than any English SL Centre but is very unlikely to make Australia's top team. He could, however, quite possibly sneak an Origin appearance or two over his career due to injuries for Queensland, who regardless of the standard of their 'top' team don't have the strength in depth of NSW. As a result he'll plump for Qld and Australia - which he already has. He'll never play for England and may never even play Origin.

I really don't see how this would in any way detract from Origin as a spectacle and as a match. The rules of Origin qualification are themselves laughable, with several Queenslanders playing for NSW and vice versa. Would it really diminish the spectacle or event in any way if Jack Reed (or Gareth Widdop if he ever gets good enough) played Origin and for England?

yeah lets get rid of the best RL on the planet so int. RL can prosper




Origin is succesful because it is an even competetion since inception

sorry for burtsing your little bubble

yeh pretty much spot on

however a stronger int, scence can also help us too but its not essential

excellent post

At what point in this thread have I said get rid of Origin? I grew up watching Kenny, Sterling, Lewis, Miles etc play Origin and I loved it (I think it has become a little sanitised lately but I still thoroughly enjoyed the game on Wednesday)

What I am saying (and I will try and state this as clearly as possible) is this...

I do not want to get rid of Origin but holding it up as the pinnacle of our sport will hold back the International game. This was true in the 80's and 90's but very understandable as it was the best standard rugby on the planet but with the emergence of the Kiwi team as the leading international side, we should be showcasing international league as the pinnacle - and that will help our sport all over the world as international sport is far more recognisable that inter-state sport. If we want to ‘sell’ Rugby League, Australia vs. NZ is far more sellable than NSW vs. QLD

There it is - if you don't agree fair enough

(and I am trying very hard to make this point without laughing icons and petty insults)

Ok so even though it is the pinnacle we should just pretend it isnt

Lol

If GB or NZ could be like queensland over 40 years vs NSW, int. RL would be on par with origin

its that simple

all we have in international RL is a few upset wins in finals by NZ

its got a long way to go

NZ are probably there

Origin is the pinnacle

its makes us unique tbh

its something neither AFL or union can match so im happy as is

A few upset wins

The longer you bury your head in the sand the longer you'll continue to fail. 3 from 6 years and one of those there was no competition suggests that in the current climate you aussies oughta get your head out your ar$es and stop licking your tonsils

And there it is – one sentence which sums up the whole debate. An insular and small minded attitude

While you’re happy with Origin providing something to the Australian public that Union can’t match, Union will continue down their road of International competition and successfully market an inferior product because they have the vision to look outside of their small pond

If I didn’t love Rugby League so much I would just laugh off your small minded parochial attitude, as it happens it frustrates the hell out of me. But I do understand that trying to get through to you is an impossible task and you will continue with your lol’s and smiley faces and be content

yeah losing 75% of your games vs australia is competetive (kiwis)

if u love RL as much as you claim then you would love origin for what it is

something very special and which deserves the pedestal its on

Int RL has failed to match it

get rid of that chip on your shoulder trying to make RL like RU

id much prefer origin to the 6 nations anyday

This is turning into quite an infuriating conversation

Dally, you are laughing at the Kiwi’s not being competitive and yet they hold the two international trophies of the 4 Nations and the World Cup beating Australia in both finals – I suspect that even your Australian compatriots will feel embarrassed for you when they read that

As for Origin. I have stated quite clearly on this thread that I grew up watching it and idolising the players – I have not said at any point that I would like it to end it and it is quite rightly revered as top class Rugby League

As for your point about the 6 Nations. I too would rather watch a SOO match that a 6 Nations match (as I am a RL fan) but in the bigger picture, I would rather see a competitive international competition contested by 6 nations annually and regularly drawing crowds of 80k week to week. If you cannot see that then you are a fan of Australian Rugby League but not Rugby League

What I do take exception to is saying that I have a chip on my shoulder. What I am able to see is that the sport of Rugby league is dynamic, skilful and fantastic to watch and if we had the vision in our sport to take it away from its insular playground and showcase it to the world (as RU has done) we would see it become ever more popular. But no – you would rather see two states in Australia (that the vast majority of the world’s population couldn’t find on a map) play our sport as the pinnacle rather than the international game. Again, this was understandable until the Kiwis rose to the challenge but for some reason you are dismissing the world champions as uncompetitive!

I have no doubt that you will reply to this post and pick out a few key words without even trying to consider what I am saying and I also have you doubt that you would continue to post until I gave up trying to have a rational conversation with you – and as is the way of the internet you would think you have won the argument by force of will rather than the strength of your case

even more embarrassed when they realize the kiwis have never beaten GB/England in a series in england

1998

More embarrassing than coming third in a three team comp, the team that came second lost 2 points for fielding and ineligible player. Still jagged second. (how bad were the Pommies) (Best Pack in the World apparently, they must be upset with the Backs as they have been the Best Pack for a decade without winning anything)



It does not get much worse than that, unless its 2004 and one man hands you your Arse before he tells his team mates to slow down in the second half because it embarrassing the game at International level.

Last but not least GB with all the Guns on board play a one off Test in Oz mid season with all the Australian players firing on all eight Cylinders. If one word had to describe the result. MURDER. The English team management pronounced that such matches would never be held again.