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| Quote ="gutterfax"opening 2 tins of beer, drinking 1/3 of each and ramming the 2/3rd full tin up each booty of 2 chickens, then place the chickens, standing upon the tins, on the BBQ, close lid '" This is straight out of your Rah Rah party manual, right? |
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| Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"The fee isn't paid to him, it's paid to souths, who are, all told loaded. Hence 500k seems suspiously small to convince them to sell.'"
I know, the point is he's moving sports, he could just walk away from his contract and Souths would have to pursue him for breach of contract, there is no framework whereby they could pursue his new club. |
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| Quote ="FoxyDread"I know, the point is he's moving sports, he could just walk away from his contract and Souths would have to pursue him for breach of contract, there is no framework whereby they could pursue his new club.'"
Yes there is, if that were true, contracts would be even more meaningless than they are already in sport. Any new club/ company would be liable for any settlement the souths demanded, regardless of what sport they played. If they refused, souths would take it court and will either use sam personally for the price deemed a suitable transfer price for him (which his new team will ultimately be responsible for), or he is put in jail for breach of contract.
In that scenario it's similar to the breach of contract Harris was guilty of when he signed for Bradford. How well did that go for bradford?
The only way he could use your argument is if he told souths he was desperately unhappy ...
Edit: I'm not denying this now seems an eminent possibility I'm just saying for 500,000 I'd of chipped in at saints for the signature! |
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What framework is there for the NRL/South Sydney to pursue this, are they going to ask the RFL to ban him from playing Rugby Union?
They can pursue the player for breach of contract, i've always stated that, but they can't stop him earning a living if he's no longer playing Rugby League.
I find it hard to see how they could pursue this with Bath, Leicester or whoever. How would that work?
Because of the difficulties it's easier for them to accept an offer of compensation that relates to the remainder of his contract.
In England Breach of Contract is a civil matter and not one that would get the defendant sent to prison.
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| Quote ="FoxyDread"What framework is there for the NRL/South Sydney to pursue this, are they going to ask the RFL to ban him from playing Rugby Union?
They can pursue the player for breach of contract, i've always stated that, but they can't stop him earning a living if he's no longer playing Rugby League.
I find it hard to see how they could pursue this with Bath, Leicester or whoever. How would that work?
Because of the difficulties it's easier for them to accept an offer of compensation that relates to the remainder of his contract.
In England Breach of Contract is a civil matter and not one that would get the defendant sent to prison.'"
They don't need to stop him playing union. In the worst case scenario (for burgess and the rfu) if they convinced him to walk out of his contract without souths agreeing a fee for it, then souths can go to town in the courts. He would be liable for the perceived value souths felt that had lost due to his breach: prize money, sponsorships, attendences they could easily go for the $5-10mill range (very ambitious but that's what you do in this case) - either the rfu can pay it for him - and souths get far more than the £500,000 - or they refuse to pay that - in which case they can get burgess sent back to aus, for ignoring a court order, which is a criminal case and he can be incarcerated for.
It seems like it's happening, but the numbers quoted baffle me. It's not even like bath have loads of cap space free so they can pay him a tonne - I just don't get it |
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Sonny Bill Williams left Canterbury with 4 years on his deal to run, he had to pay $750,000. Sam's got 2 years left.
Without a international game of note this will always happen.
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| Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"They don't need to stop him playing union. In the worst case scenario (for burgess and the rfu) if they convinced him to walk out of his contract without souths agreeing a fee for it, then souths can go to town in the courts. He would be liable for the perceived value souths felt that had lost due to his breach: prize money, sponsorships, attendences they could easily go for the $5-10mill range (very ambitious but that's what you do in this case) - either the rfu can pay it for him - and souths get far more than the £500,000 - or they refuse to pay that - in which case they can get burgess sent back to aus, for ignoring a court order, which is a criminal case and he can be incarcerated for.
It seems like it's happening, but the numbers quoted baffle me. It's not even like bath have loads of cap space free so they can pay him a tonne - I just don't get it'"
I don't want to be rude but that just reads like a load of nonsense. Firstly there action would be against the player, it's very unlikely they would be able to prove "enticement" especially when he's reportedly talking to several clubs, that makes it seem like Sam B is in control.
I also suspect you are inaccurate when talking about the effect and compensation for a breach of contract, he's merely an employee, it's not a business to business breach, the level of compensation would be closely tied to his remaining salary.
With regards payment of compensation they are clearly happy to do so, around the half million mark, so that will be the end of it. Neither of us are lawyers, and I may well be wrong but you are plucking all sorts out of the air to make your argument. I'm not convinced one bit by the extradition and prison stuff you mention but as we are both laymen I will leave it there, and wait for the wise ones to contribute.
I see above Sheldon has made a case to suggest the compensation level is reasonable compared to SBW's buying out of his contract, which backs up my original point. |
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| Quote ="FoxyDread"I don't want to be rude but that just reads like a load of nonsense. Firstly there action would be against the player, it's very unlikely they would be able to prove "enticement" especially when he's reportedly talking to several clubs, that makes it seem like Sam B is in control.
I also suspect you are inaccurate when talking about the effect and compensation for a breach of contract, he's merely an employee, it's not a business to business breach, the level of compensation would be closely tied to his remaining salary.
With regards payment of compensation they are clearly happy to do so, around the half million mark, so that will be the end of it. Neither of us are lawyers, and I may well be wrong but you are plucking all sorts out of the air to make your argument. I'm not convinced one bit by the extradition and prison stuff you mention but as we are both laymen I will leave it there, and wait for the wise ones to contribute.
I see above Sheldon has made a case to suggest the compensation level is reasonable compared to SBW's buying out of his contract, which backs up my original point.'"
A) I never mentioned enticement. The only reason the rfu would be in any way liable would be to help their new player.
B) so between 2008 and now, after signing a billion dollar deal and raising their salary cap several times, a marquee player is only roughly £100k more?? Here was me thinking were struggling to keep up with the clubs.
C) the breach would be to the value of the remains of the contract if it were souths who breached the contract. Defining the value of your work is a lot harder to define. That's why there are employment tribunals. That's why in a worst case for Sam I'd suggest they should milk it for all it's worth, just as Leeds did with Harris. Admittedly I plucked a figure out of thin air, but only for the purposes of Sam is worth more to a team than that!
Russell Crowe has pumped millions upon millions into the club, what's 500,000 for selling a star player? |
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Souths have sent an members email saying they've had no contact from anyone about Sam.
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| Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"A) I never mentioned enticement. The only reason the rfu would be in any way liable would be to help their new player.
B) so between 2008 and now, after signing a billion dollar deal and raising their salary cap several times, a marquee player is only roughly £100k more?? Here was me thinking were struggling to keep up with the clubs.
C) the breach would be to the value of the remains of the contract if it were souths who breached the contract. Defining the value of your work is a lot harder to define. That's why there are employment tribunals. That's why in a worst case for Sam I'd suggest they should milk it for all it's worth, just as Leeds did with Harris. Admittedly I plucked a figure out of thin air, but only for the purposes of Sam is worth more to a team than that!
Russell Crowe has pumped millions upon millions into the club, what's 500,000 for selling a star player?'"
A) doesn't "if they persuaded him to walk out of his contract" amount to enticement?
B) Well contrary to what you believe if the fee is to be a meagre £500,000 and Sam is earning so much more that would kind of prove my case that South's are in a very weak bargaining position and there is nowhere worthwhile to take this, if you are correct of course the fee will be so much higher than half a million.
C) How many tribunal cases are you aware of where the company get or even seeks significant amounts of redress from their employee for breach of contract? Leeds and Harris is a little bit different given it was found that Bradford did encourage Harris to break his contract with Leeds and that Leeds and Bradford are in the same country and under the same legal system. |
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Cynic alert...
So RL has a great world cup, England thrill the nation at Wembley, the league gets new sponsors and tv deal... and then on the eve of the season the RFU leak they are after one of the sports best players...
All coincidental of course.
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No, the RFU are desperate for England to have a good tournament.
The timing all makes sense, tapped up in November, Sam B sleeps on it. Nothing sinister. I doubt RL is even on the RFU's radar, they have to worry about moneybags french RU teams.
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Bath RU announce they are the ones looking to sign him and pair him up in the centres with Kyle Eastmond.
Unfortunately this comes down to national exposure in an international game and our failure as a sport to generate interest in our game. This will become more evident once the RU world cup in 2015 kicks off, this is when Rugby Union will gain so much momentum and cash that there will be nothing the Morans and Koukash's can do to stop the talent drain.
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Sam Burgess was overrated at Souths.
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Looks like Sam Burgess is abandoning the superior warm Sydney lifestyle for a pot of gold in the cold.
www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/s ... 6819577647
It shows how insignificant the small profit-making 2013 RLWC was after all. A £5 million profit is a joke compared to the profits the RUWC will make. RU will have three of our superstars (Sam Burgess for England, SBW for NZ and Israel Folau for Australia) to bring the fans in through the gates. We will be poorer without them.
The RFL bosses, esp. Nigel Wood in collusion with the empty suit Brian Barwick and the Hetheringtons, continue to drag our code down to the economic gutter by selling Super League TV rights years in advance for less than their potential market value, and by allowing professional RL in London to rot, and by denying Toulouse a place in the Super League top 12. We have a joke of an international presence because there are only three countries competitive. The next potential competitors, France and PNG, have been given no subsidy to grow and become competitive by the RLIF which Nigel Wood runs.
Nigel Wood is a small minded accountant who should never have been allowed out of Halifax. The fact that he is allowed to run the RFL and tears up all the good reforms of Richard Lewis, like licencing and building the game in France, shows what a dunce Wood is and how incompetent the rest of the RFL are. Wood understands nothing about running a major sporting business. Lenagan, Moran or Koukash should be running the game. |
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Looks like Sam Burgess is abandoning the superior warm Sydney lifestyle for a pot of gold in the cold.
www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/s ... 6819577647
It shows how insignificant the small profit-making 2013 RLWC was after all. A £5 million profit is a joke compared to the profits the RUWC will make. RU will have three of our superstars (Sam Burgess for England, SBW for NZ and Israel Folau for Australia) to bring the fans in through the gates. We will be poorer without them.
The RFL bosses, esp. Nigel Wood in collusion with the empty suit Brian Barwick and the Hetheringtons, continue to drag our code down to the economic gutter by selling Super League TV rights years in advance for less than their potential market value, and by allowing professional RL in London to rot, and by denying Toulouse a place in the Super League top 12. We have a joke of an international presence because there are only three countries competitive. The next potential competitors, France and PNG, have been given no subsidy to grow and become competitive by the RLIF which Nigel Wood runs.
Nigel Wood is a small minded accountant who should never have been allowed out of Halifax. The fact that he is allowed to run the RFL and tears up all the good reforms of Richard Lewis, like licencing and building the game in France, shows what a dunce Wood is and how incompetent the rest of the RFL are. Wood understands nothing about running a major sporting business. Lenagan, Moran or Koukash should be running the game. | |
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It's a joke/disgrace etc.
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What a load of crap Jean. It's not Super League over here that has failed to keep Burgess. Not even the billion dollar NRL comp, the sunshine or the four 'n twenty pies could entice Burgess to stay. Rugby Union is big don't ya know.
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If this happens I'm going to see my something chronic. Gutted.
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| Quote ="Bullseye"It's a joke/disgrace etc.'"
Aye lad. It's like Thomas Chippendale going to work for IKEA. What a waste of talent.
Still, who can we lynch over here to make up for it? |
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| Quote ="The Poltroon"Sam Burgess was overrated at Souths.'"
And so it begins. |
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| Quote ="Sheldon"And so it begins.'"
He's a Socialist too, I'm sure. |
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| Quote ="Sheldon"And so it begins.'"
great player on his day..but liked a few weeks rest last season on numerous occasions due to stupid antics |
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Good luck to him if he goes.Can't blame a guy for wanting to secure his long term financial future whilst getting a shot at a truly global event.
Can't help but feel disappointed though that we will miss 2/3 years of Sam in his prime, whilst having his game strangled out him in the other code and then returning half the player he was.
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Hardest rugby league pill I've had to swallow in years.
The thing is, I don't blame him. It shows what a financial and commercial powerhouse RU is when it can attract the likes of burgess away from...not super league....but the NRL.
I put myself in burgess' shoes and think
money - check
chance to become national icon and win for your country - check
get's to come home (as nice as aus is, it isn't home) - check
I mean it's really a no brainer for burgess. Most player won't have the same mentality regarding RU that fans have, it's a career. This is a good career move for burgess, which is a damning indictment on the strength of our game.
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| Quote ="The Poltroon"Sam Burgess was overrated at Souths.'"
Really.
Please tell us why.... |
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