Wow, love to live in the black and white world that you reside in


Your anti Catalan ramblings are something not really seen on here since Cas were relegated from 11th spot.

You keep banging on about how few French players Catalan have in their squad and, despite my suggesting that there could be a tweak in the rules to try and increase this number, you still haven't given up.
You also dont seem to acknowledge any French players in the comp, who aren't currently playing for Catalan but, again, that doesn't fit your argument.
As for the RL papers, I used to take League Weekly on subscription but, no longer do and would regard myself as an "occasional" buyer of the paper - hope that's ok with you ?
You could link or regurgitate the articles if you think they are really important though


However, it may be worth remembering that, just like The Sun and The Mail, much of what they print is deliberately provocative to try and help sell their journal and may not be 100% fact.
Indeed, Sadler, I believe, is a strong believer in expansion and a big fan of the N. American experiment ??, something that I personally believe is to the detriment of the UK game.
We also have people in the game like Peacock who, whilst at Leeds, was advocating a reduction to a 10 club SL and yet, once in situ at KR, went in completely the opposite direction and started to advocate expanding SL to 14 clubs.
It's all about sorting the wheat from the chaff and quite frankly, those running the game, need to have a clear objectives for how to raise the profile and participation levels in the game and a clear sense of how to achieve this. Which, for the record, getting rid of Catalan would, see a reduction in player numbers and a reduction in the games profile.
I wish there was a silver bullet that could propel RL higher up the sporting pecking order but, there just isn't
However, unlike you, I see great merit in getting a second French club (Toulouse) into SL. However, this should not be at the expense of another UK based club, it should be in addition to (just as I believe Toronto should be, too.

I don't need to reference an opinion. Surely you can tell tell the difference between saying something as fact and opinion?

I don't think Pearson said he was [i"happy with three overseas teams"[/i

By all means reflect the facts as reported, by all means pass an opinion that may be in line with the facts, but please don't bother wasting your and my time trying to wriggle out of the actual point. If you think Pearson is happy with Hull.v.Catalans, Hull.v.Toronto and Hull.v.New York and would not mind Hull.K.R. making way for the latter, and Hull being even further away from a return to Hull.v.Bradford fixtures...........even though 80% of his clubs fanbase prefer HKR and Bradford to overseas opposition, and he would prefer the bigger crowds Rovers and Bulls bring, then you need to think again, concede this point and move the debate forward.

1. Cut the personal stuff my friend and stick to the debate, it's not about me...... and you only start slanging matches by taking that approach.

2. There is every chance that by this time next year you will have your wish and Toulouse may well replace HKR.

Now you need to explain your comment about the games "profile" which is about "attention" from people, we can measure that by the size of the TV audiences and the size of the games attendances. You really do need to look up Hull's likely attendances for games against Catalans and Toulouse and then consider the TV audience for such games. Then you need to consider the "profile" if they were against Bradford and Hull.KR (who could go down for Toulouse) instead. [uAlso take into account the poll of people in Hull as regards overseas expansion - 80% weren't interested.[/u You may be but they were not??.

3. Now of course your get out is your 14 club SL - or is it? Leeds, Saints, Wire, Wigan, Cas, Huddersfied, Salford, Hull, HKR and Wakefield............. Catalans, Toulouse, New York and Toronto?

QUESTION - Is that your vision for the future? Do you really believe the game should forget Bradford, Widnes, Leigh Newcastle, London and York now??
QUESTION - What do you do once Ottawa, Avignon and Vancouver make applications to join?? Go to 17 clubs or kick three more useless English clubs out??
QUESTION - as the player pool shrinks - especially in France - where would you think they would get all the players from, for even two more clubs in SL???

Not France not North America......

I really do not think you have thought this through have you. As Mr. Perez will tell you he needs (his words) at least 5 North American clubs in SL to get a TV deal there so we will need an 18 club league if you would not relegate any more English clubs.

Take your time with considering the scenario above, and my questions of you. Try not to insult me. It's just a debate on the game we both love to pass some time....

Why do some people keep banging on about Newcastle, York, neither have beena roaring success at any point.

I'll take that one



Because York found a well off chairman and got a new ground........

Because Newcastle found a Millionaire chairman and started to develop new local players........

TWP have no ground and will never develop players AND unlike York and Newcastle will never sell any TV subscriptions......

So why do "some people" keep banging on and on and on and on and on and on about TWP?

Do you really believe the game should forget Bradford, Widnes, Leigh Newcastle, London and York now??

Strange question. Now we should not forget about ANY club, including the ones that you mention, although, last time I looked, there was a pathway from the Championship into SL.
If ANY of those clubs wins their GF, then , they are up - end of - although you are being mighty generous to Bradford, Newcastle and probably Widnes as I dont see these clubs challenging for promotion just yet and you seem to have omitted Fev from your list.

What do you do once Ottawa, Avignon and Vancouver make applications to join??

I think that all of the above are some way off making the league structure and some dont exist

as the player pool shrinks - especially in France

My knowledge of participation numbers in France isn't good, although I'm sure that just as in the UK and in many other sports, they will be struggling to maintain and increase participation numbers. However, in France it probably more a case of turning a greater percentage of their current youth into pro or semi pro players.
You have already stated that Catalan, in your opinion aren't doing enough and I agree.
However, with a decent pathway from the amateur game, plus a decent level of coaching, I'm sure that more players could make the grade.

I've already said that the "European" league should increase to accommodate the overseas sides that can meet the relevant criteria, although there are limits in everything and again, I 've also suggested previously that the overseas clubs MUST be committed to developing their own players. Not doing so will ultimately end in failure.
FWIW, I think that Toulouse are doing ok in this regard, probably better than your average Championship or SL club and they should be encouraged to continue doing so.
France does have a game to build on, which, just as you keep arguing that losing English clubs may be detrimental to the sport over here, surely, the same applies if we jettison Catalan and tell Toulouse to do one and drop them from The Championship ?

Sounds as if the Catalans games might be shown after all. https://www.totalrl.com/elstone-admits- ... ed-sooner/ From TotalRL: =#BF00BFMeanwhile, Elstone has revealed that they are working hard behind the scenes to secure TV deals for games that will be held in France and Canada in 2020. Catalans are notoriously still yet to finalise an agreement with a broadcaster, and the spotlight will be on how Toronto’s home games are broadcasted when they go back to Canada. Elstone said he believes a ‘healthy amount’ of fixtures from overseas will be shown. He said: “We’re still continuing to work on making sure that home games in Perpignan and Toronto get as much coverage as possible, but that situation is quite fluid. Certainly the big games in Canada and France will get screened and that’s important to us and the clubs from their own point of view. We’re hopeful that a healthy amount of those games will be screened.” Elstone's use of the pronoun "we" suggests success is in the air. In contrast, it's very notable that in the same article he announces that the RFL is dealing with TWP's dispensation issues on behalf of SL

Sounds as if the Catalans games might be shown after all. https://www.totalrl.com/elstone-admits- ... ed-sooner/ From TotalRL: =#BF00BFMeanwhile, Elstone has revealed that they are working hard behind the scenes to secure TV deals for games that will be held in France and Canada in 2020. Catalans are notoriously still yet to finalise an agreement with a broadcaster, and the spotlight will be on how Toronto’s home games are broadcasted when they go back to Canada. Elstone said he believes a ‘healthy amount’ of fixtures from overseas will be shown. He said: “We’re still continuing to work on making sure that home games in Perpignan and Toronto get as much coverage as possible, but that situation is quite fluid. Certainly the big games in Canada and France will get screened and that’s important to us and the clubs from their own point of view. We’re hopeful that a healthy amount of those games will be screened.” Elstone's use of the pronoun "we" suggests success is in the air. In contrast, it's very notable that in the same article he announces that the RFL is dealing with TWP's dispensation issues on behalf of SL

Thanks very much for your polite and considered viewpoints Wrencat.

For the avoidance of doubt I would say that once 2021 is over any entry to Superleague and indeed any continuation of any "guest" club in Superleague will be dependant on the Superleague clubs saying they are OK with this. Saying OK to Catalans Toulouse and Toronto as guests takes three places in SL away from actual member clubs like Newcastle, Leigh Bradford, Widnes and Featherstone Rovers.

Once again Catalans were allowed in so they could develop French pro players for the international side and they aren't doing this they are going backwards, they even closed their academy. Toulouse have no player development system nor do Toronto.

On what basis do you think full members of the game here who underpin an English TV deal and develop players through their Foundation/academy/reserves set ups can EVER be pushed aside for guest clubs from abroad that don't do anything for the player pool or the TV deal??

My question was not "strange", but your idea that non TV contract or Player producing guest clubs should ever be preferred to player producing, TV deal producing member clubs certainly is "strange" can you explain this please??

That all said, we have been advised not to derail threads, so, how do we help French RL, I say let them stand or fall in their own right, Perpignan is a better weekend away than Widnes, other than that, Catalans haven't achieved what was initially set out. Much like Crusaders, Bronco's et al.

That's what I said basically although I meant SL may well remove them because they had failed.

They won't fall, as long as Gausch can spend all his money on English/Aussie players they will never fall, so the plug has to be pulled sometime, and it ain't de-railing anything to say this because if they are not removed 2022 and a worthy English club loses out it will be a travesty. I would advise you to leave moderating to the moderators.

Otherwise the next thread is [i"How do we help Toronto Wolfpack to become a loved and cherished Superlague club to grace SL forever and encourage more NA clubs".......
[/i

You are still making stuff up.

Who knows what will happen beyond 2021, I certainly dont.
Despite me posting that ALL clubs in SL should develop their own players, you are questioning why I have said that they shouldn't ?

You keep banging on about Catalan not doing "enough" to develop players and not having "enough" of their own players in their squad.
Again, I suggested that there should be a number put into the criteria for them competing. However, they aren't too different to some SL clubs (not having too many club trained payers).
You also keep banging on about Catalan not producing enough players for the national side, last time I looked they didn't do too badly.
However, apart form 1 club being expected to provide the national squad, which is just crazy, they would of course be disadvantaged if they effectively had to play X number of additional games, in an already testing season - this is one of the main reasons why there probably should be an additional 1 or 2 French clubs in SL - in ADDITION to the current SL sides.

Of course there has to be a TV deal which has some balance to ALL competing sides, although it does seem that Toronto are struggling in this respect, which adds further fuel to the anti expansion argument.

As for there being a "limit" of 3 overseas clubs in a league of 12. I've been saying for a long time that the league should expand to accommodate these clubs and NOT have a situation where the current sides are merely replaced with "plastic" clubs.

You need to define "worthy", just because a club has been around for a long time doesn't make them any more (or less) worthy.

Think about how the workplace functions, "This is Ted, he's been here 63 years,he can't use a computer and often forgets what he just said, but we're keeping him, Paul shows promise, but he's not even married, he'll most likely leave and make a competitor stronger"

no, doesn't happen anymore.

We CANNOT cling to the idealism of (Hovis advert theme here, boy freewheeling down a hill in Ilkley) how life used to be. Do you want rid of Sky, back to the bakerlite switch behind the TV, a round earth pin, the girl with the balloon and National Anthem at midnight?

We MUST embrace POSITIVE change, not change for the sake of change, but change we need.

As for leaving moderating to moderators more than happy to do so.I will, however, express my opinion within the AUP.

This was the only bit I understood in your post. Happy to change Catalans for Bulls, and Toronto for Newcastle.

That would be one heck of a nett gain business wise. I hope you would not suggest such a change was merely due to being prejudice against overseas clubs?

It's merely that doing such a swap would make Superleague a stronger business, higher crowds better player development and a touch of expansion to boot.

When are you hoping for these changes.
Bradford, at the moment are sinking fast (albeit with various rescue plans being muted) and Newcastle are in the third tier
You appear to be the opposite of Jean Capdouze, bigging up UK clubs that are still a long way down the pecking order.
Granted, Bradford are a sleeping giant (maybe) but, Newcastle, although getting better are still some way off SL.

Leigh, London and Toulouse and York will be the likeliest candidates for promotion this season and out of those, it would be great to see York make it into the top flight but, I wouldn't begrudge any of them a place in the top flight.

1. I do because I read it up. Superleague get to choose who is in Superleague 2022, and will be no longer forced to accept anyone they don't want which the current TV deal forces them to do.

2. I have to bang on because you can't accept Catalans and Toulouse can hardly produce any French professional quality players and the small number they do have is going down - I looked this up.

3. And I've been telling you for a long time there aren't the quality of players about to go to 14 clubs, the SL clubs said this over a year ago.

Your the one who ignores the facts and "bangs on". Listen to the Bosses in the game who say these things.....

Bradford have just been taken over and have Nigel Wood at the top and Eric Perez as CEO - how is that sinking???

Newcastle are owned by a multi-Millionaire Semor Kurdi who can just sign a whole SL quality team up???

Both will offer good player development systems i.e. Foundations, academies and reserves. whilst TWP and Catalans offer nowt of the kind They just leach off the game here.

Sorry that we keep disagreeing mate, but these are truly the facts.....and your not grasping them

what does read it up mean?

He could. If he wanted to. Union's his passion though.

You not aware of Woods CV?

Research my dear boy...

Yeh, a very powerful and influential man in the world of rugby league

How is your CV going?

Not in any common use.

as for the "my dear boy", comment, it just makes me laugh.