All of those things are irrelevant to the point I am making. I'm glad Marc green is reconnecting with the fans whatever that means. I'm glad he is trying to run the club in a sensible way.

But you can't argue that Bradford are on a long road to getting back crowds of ten years ago when they are falling away from crowds of 1 year ago.

The facts are that bradfords crowds have been in free fall facts or a couple of years INCLUDING this one. 5k is a poor crowd for Bradford and let's hope it always stays a poor crowd for Bradford because it will be a terrible day for them when 5k is a good crowd.

The million pound game being played by a couple of villages in Yorkshire in a ground that's only selling point is the blow up entry wildcat the players run through when entering the field.

What a mess the game is in. Has Big Nige got a Wiggo esq Olympic chair positioned in the temporary offices(corporate boxes!) sited at one end of the ground so he can lord it up over the baying minions?

You don't want yo yo clubs ????

What we have now will condemn 3 or maybe 4 clubs (from a top flight of 12) to playing in a relegation league, season after season, unless they happen to get lucky.

Although Sky will be happy with the excitement of a last day all or nothing game, having been through this experience previously (against Castleford), there is little pleasure in everything hanging on 80 minutes of RL, where 1 mistake by a player or official can so dramatically affect the fortunes of a RL club.

Under a sensible league system, where a clubs destiny is decided on their performance over the whole season, if you finish bottom (or, in a relegation spot), it isn't by accident and whilst the situation did arise in the Wakefield / Castleford game, that was a "one off".

The RFL and SKY have contrived a format that ensures that we will have this situation every season, quite ridiculous when peoples livelihood's are at stake.

He wasn't arguing that. He's saying it will take a long time to rebuild to those levels, without ever saying it's guaranteed.

You're seeking to turn that into a Bradford in freefall compared to last year argument, and it's nonsense.

There were two 8k+ crowds at the beginning of last year. They were before the second administration happened. After that crowds were pretty consistently about 6k. The first administration was bad, but I have never known people be as deflated as they were at that point. I suspect this is what is meant by Green reconnecting with the fans, although it has yet to get to the point where for instance my Dad is prepared to reinvest emotionally with the club.

When Catalans visited, a team with marginal travelling support, the crowd was near identical to what they have been all of this year. I would argue the home support has been pretty consistent compared to last year, and that this year the away support has been close to non existent in all but a few instances.

When a meaningful game came along the crowd was 9k+. When meaningless games against poorly supported teams were played on rainy days there were sub 5k crowds.

What this also means is people are picking and choosing their games at the moment, and the longer we are in the championship the longer that road back is going to be.

5k is bad for Bradford. So is trying to get promotion into SL. I wonder perchance if there's a connection.

edit: words

We got relegated. That's always going to take a bite out of the average. We don't have teams like Leeds or Wigan to play every week. But even so, we've only dropped about 1500 off the gate.

You say you've got a point to make, but I fail to see what it is. Everyone knows Bradford's crowds are not what they once were, but Bradford isn't the club it once was either so it's fairly easy to see the connection between failing standards on the pitch and falling crowds off it. The hardcore of Bradford support is around 5k, but that's a foundation point. There are SL clubs who struggle to get much beyond that on their best days. So yes, for what Bradford was, the crowds are poor. For a club that went broke twice and got relegated, 5k is still a strong foundation to build the club back up on and get those fans to come back

I am looking forward to this more than the semi finals, I'm so glad we are not in it. I don't think I would like to be a Wakey or Bradford fan watching it, too much at stake to enjoy for them I think. I am not bothered who wins it, but think Wakey will be too strong for the Bulls. I am glad I can just watch it with a beer and enjoy the game. Good luck to both teams.

Under the new format, these always next year



Seriously though, we have a league of 12 clubs who play each other twice (plus the Magic game), we then have another league (the qualifiers) who all play each other once, why the hell do we need another game when everything is on the line.
If we cant decide who should be promoted or relegated over 30 games and have to have a final spilling of blood, it's a bloody poor show.

I agree, looking forward to it isn't a vote of confidence in the whole thing, I would much rather the bottom club be replaced by the top club, this will keep the action on field going until the last weeks or even down to the wire as we had a few years ago with Cas & Wakey.

You seem desperate to have an argument because you see a criticism of Bradford where one doesnt really exist. Bradford's attendances are poor. They are poor for Bradford, that may be because they were relegated. Id readily agree that relegation destroys crowds.

And yes, Bradford compared to other clubs have huge potential to get back to where they were. Lets hope they do.

The wider point is that there is clearly a connection and it is dumb to be celebrating 1 8k crowd when we have lost 1500 for 30 weeks beforehand.

Nobody is celebrating it, it was mentioned because it has relevance to negating the narrative you're trying to impose. It was roughly 9,100 btw, not 8k. I'm starting to see where you're going wrong.

You're the one pushing for the argument. You keep saying Bradford's attendances are poor, but I say that for where they are currently and for what's happened in their recent past, they're not.

I can’t believe you’re continuing a discussion with Smokey, remember he’s a Leeds fan.

He doesn’t support a club who have had no success for a number of years.

Let’s be honest, if Leeds were to have a similar slump & found themselves in the Championship their crowds would still top ten thousand

.

Well actually, if their real love ever manages to get back into the Premier League & win stuff, the South Stand would become a much quieter place.

Yes they were, and it wasnt the 9.1k Bradford got, but the 8k Wakefield will get. Thats the question that was asked before hyper-sensitivity took hold.

Is the 8k generated by the million pound game worth the terrible crowds Bradford and Wakefield got up to this point?

I dont believe they are, i dont believe that that 8k is worth what we lost by seeing Bradford fall, and i dont believe it is worth the damage done to Wakefield.

Its just the usual rubbish , desperatly trying to use the structure for the Bulls decining support, when as has been pointed out by Bulls own fans, its a decade of poor performance both on and off the pitch, several years of it under licencing

Because it didnt. Relegation and the prospect of it correlated with far poorer attendances for Bradford than not. Even if you want to delude yourself differently

Those things arent mutually exclusive. If you want to say Bradfords attendances are good for a relegated club, good for a 2nd tier club, good for a club with this, that or the other excuse, fine.

They are still poor.

Its just the usual rubbish , desperatly trying to use the structure for the Bulls decining support, when as has been pointed out by Bulls own fans, its a decade of poor performance both on and off the pitch, several years of it under licencing

My mistake, I thought by quoting me you were continuing the conversation we were having and not resetting the clock to lunch time. Easy mistake to make.

That said, they really weren't.

The closest anybody came to mentioning crowds before your first post:

Why moan about the format. As a fax fan its been the best year in years, more to play for.

I can not wait to watch the game tomorrow. A closed shop is not a fair sport. Just makes it boring. This is the way to go. A couple of rule changes eg no signing a whole new team a week before the playoffs etc and it will be perfect.

You really think that it's a good format ???

ANY promoted club will have to fight for their lives again the following season, and that is if they can actually gain promotion.
The middle 8's have generally been competitive which indicates that the top of the Championship isn't too far behind the bottom of SL, something that was known anyway.
You would have seen a similar "excitement" with 1 up 1 down or, 2 up 2 down.

What we have now is 23 rounds of the regular season to "qualify" for the qualifiers and then another league to decide if someone should be promoted or relegated.

Leigh were the top Championship club and deserved to be promoted, end of story and Wakefield were mickey poor for 23 rounds and deserved to be relegated but we've had the charade of the qualifiers which now gives Trinity a lifeline and allows Bradford to steal Leigh's chance of promotion, it's no longer sport, just TV entertainment.

Don't you think that Bradford would have played the season differently if the top of the league gained promotion? Lowes stated all along that it was all about the play-offs, much to the annoyance of the Bulls faithful. Bradford set their goal of finishing the season to have a shot at promotion, not the league leaders shield.

I also seem to recall that Webster did the same at Wakefield, stating that the league didn't matter and it was all about preparing for the play-offs. Rightly or wrongly you can't change the rules at the end of the season to suit an argument.

Wakey should think themselves lucky for getting a second chance. After years of licencing we now have a way in to the promised land. The new format has been very entertaining up to now.

yes it proved a point Leigh was far from ready Behind fax Sheffield and Bradford.

Its a marathon not a sprint. Leighs wheels fell off as soon as they lost to KR

Hardly 'stolen' anyone's chance of promotion it was the same rules for everyone. Equally Wakefield 'stole' Leigh's chance of promotion or Hull KR 'stole' Sheffield's chance of promotion.

Leigh played their best Rugby at the wrong time of the year and will have learned from that. They'll be back next year better and better prepped.