Salford, a city likely bigger than Hull & definitely far bigger than Wakefield.

Not the point I was making or responding to though Atomic !

The clips linked by another member show the most advantageous angle from the TW Club perspective, as if to show they are not lying about attendances, TW as a Club will be aware they are being accused of lying about attendances on social media & are trying to firefight .....

This is little more than TW propaganda !

The fact remains that in the clip of Bussey's sly swinging arm into the face of an unaware opponent the clip shows a large-ish section of empty space. The pro expansionists will always try to find a way to defend there agenda.

Also FWIW, North Americans/Canadians are very much used to travelling distances far greater than 25m to a game, you don't think that the Boston Red Sox, LA Lakers, Chicago Bulls or New York Jets all live on the doorstep do you ?
North America/Canada has a very different culture.

*TW fans should be applauded for taking less than 3k to their Home game 25m from downtown Toronto* but TW as a Club should not be applauded for the surreptitious way it goes about it's business.

The damage done to the TWP Club this season with the Lamport farce will be measured on their return to it. I'm not sure what the agenda is regarding attendance of this match, but I'm pretty sure that shouldn't be taken into account given they are on playing field 25m from home.

Also all the places you state don't carry RL clubs,so I take the less than 3k as being hard core fans who enjoy RL,and good on them.

Even with their ground problems, "over inflated" attendance figures and not playing a game at home until 2 months into the season, oh yes and no away fans, they will still top the attendance figures for the Championship.
I still have grave doubts about the viability of a Canadian side in "our" league but, they probably deserve a shot, just to see if there really is any potential.
Having said that, their toughest test will be getting through the middle 8's and all this moaning may be for nothing, as we may start next season with the same 12 clubs in Super League as this year.

As Leigh fans, would you rather nobody was promoted from the Championship or, would you rather swap Toronto for say, Widnes or Salfoird

As with Sky our sport fills a spot in the off seasons of other sports. The same can be said about Toronto,so yes the attendances with 11/12 games on the bounce at home should soar given theres not much else going on.

As with all sports, deserving a shot is whats done on the park, not in the stands. TV/media don't care about whats in the stands.Sponsor's don't care about whats in the stands,it's the camera angle they look at.

The middle 8's is all very reliant on how the fixtures fall. Not sure how Toronto will be accommodated in that aspect.

As for your last point, as I've already stated, Toronto are guests at present and no right to replace any Club in SL unless they can prove that on the park.

Deserving a shot ??

After starting at the bottom of the third tier to appease the less forward thinking fans, they gaind promotion and are currently sitting on to p of the Championship.
Many Leigh fans thought this was enough for them to "deserve a shot"

Your half right about TV, they just want to pay as little as they reasonably can to allow them to fill the breaks with advertising, which is why we now have games on 4 different days of the week, sometimes 5.

I've said before that I personally dont think that N American clubs are viable in SL, purely due to the logistics and cost and whether they will bring additional revenue into the game, rather than push up costs for both clubs and supporters but, you guys (Leigh fans) are desperate for them to fail, which may help Leigh have another go in SL.

It's not all about Leigh, thank god.

Has it been confirmed 2019 will be 12 clubs? There was lots of talk about expanding to 14 or even reducing to 10 clubs pre season, with nothing confirmed as far as I know.

I think the vast majority of Leigh fans are desperate to see Toronto fail.

ALL Leigh fans are only concerned about one thing, promotion. It's only the idiots on here who are thinking otherwise.

Nothing has been confirmed yet regarding any changes to the league structure.
However, there are rumors about Toronto running out of cash and I'm sure that "everyone" is waiting to see how Toronto (and Toulouse) get on this season.
Let's face it, any change will only be made to accommodate one or either of them and if they cant compete and / or gain promotion under the current system, IMO there wont be any change.

For me, they ought to put them both in SL and increase the comp to 14 clubs and exempt them both from relegation for 2or3 seasons and then we will all have a better idea of the practicalities and advantages/disadvantages of having such a diverse top flight.

It's still possible that Toronto wont last the distance but, the longer the are outside the top flight, the more likely they are to fail.

Of course, this "expansion" of the league should be coupled with a renegotiation of the TV contract and again, we will all see whether all the hype about them "bringing more revenue into the game" was real or, just wishful thinking.
Personally, I think the latter and that the whole issue has been somewhat over egged to suit someone's (Big Nige) personal agenda.

The middle 8's will test the practicalities of play off rugby across 3 nations and we'll see just how excited the Sky boys really are.

They didn't grind there way through league 1 though did they. They got the salary cap uped, bought a side good enough for the championship, we're full time when the rest of the league are pt. Then had fixture in the 8 (3 away, then 4 home), that suited them down to the ground.
That's not disparaging them, but all they did last year was what was the least expected of them.
This year they have been doing well, but you could argue that again the fixture list was made to suit them (whoelse do you think could get away with having all there away fixtures 1st, followed by all there home games?). With there cap dispensation (which has never been mentioned by how much? ). You could again argue that they're doing what was expected. It would be interesting if they get promoted and did this next year, Wether SL fans would still be happy about it?.

As I put in an early post, the biggest problem is have personally is if they ever get a North American league going, and there a few teams in our league. What happens then? To both them and if they leave our league?

My own personal choice would be a 8/10 club American league, with clubs just below to expand it. As to fugly promote RL we need more than just 3 countries with leagues in it. But I doubt this will happen.

A full blown N American professional league is light years away, so no need to worry about it and talk of an 8/10 team comp is just fantasy land stuff.

I guess we are going with the N. American version of Catalan, which has been a success.
Maybe SL at could accommodate a second N. American club at some point but, any more than 2 would require a major re think on what "we" want from the sport and it could potentially kill off a couple of existing UK clubs, which would be massively counter productive.

Agree completely that a north American league is light years away if at all. As I really don't think there is as much of an appetite for RL over there as some think. With the amount of sports already over there professionally and college/high school wise, they're already spoiled for choice. Given that RU has for the last 5 years been trying over there , and made little to no impact. It's a fairly arrogant view that all RL has to do is turn up and they'll be falling over themselves for us (not your view I know, just some on here's view).

To be fair, I think the next shaping of the league could do more to kill off some clubs than American teams. If anything this one could be the biggest since 96 (when SL started). And if we get it wrong I really fear for the future of the sport.

Theyve got two other cities that are nothing more than suburbs

Why should SL clubs get a fair playing field if Toronto do get promoted given what we've seen so far? If we have some consistency throughout their rise through the leagues, then they shouldn't be given any Sky funding in SL, but equally they shouldn't be hindered by anything as silly as a salary cap. That way they can buy in NRL standard players throughout the squad and blast their way to an unbeaten run topping the league and winning both the Grand Final and Challenge Cup. Good for the game in the UK? I think not.

Stupid? It won't happen? No it won't, but why should they be granted such an advantage in League 1 and the Championship and not have to adhere to the same operational rules as their adversaries?

Btw, of course Leigh, Halifax and others in the Championship would like them to fail (on the field), as that gives their own team a better chance of success.

funny that coming from a place that houses the National Coal Mining Museum.

What advantage have they been given so far exactly?
They are operating under the same cap as Fax and every other champ club right now.

No they not. They have cap discrepancie so they can go over. No one has ever actually said how much more, but it's there.

First I've heard of this, got a source to prove it?

Have you got the source to disprove it?

Playing home and away games in blocks is a massive advantage as they don't have transatlantic flights and jet lag to worry about. They do seem to have the same maximum cap as everyone else, but that gives them a big advantage in the Championship as established teams don't have anyone bank-rolling them to anywhere near the same extent as they do. What's less clear is how they're keeping their salary bill within 50% of their "relevant income"?

It was supposed to be both funny and ironic, although, I dont think having a museum denotes village, town or city status.
Mind you, Wakefield, years ago, was at the very centre of both mining and rugby league. Mining definietely wont be making a comeback but the Rugby League side do keep battling against the odds and confounding their critics, of which there are many.

1) Surely this is mitigation of a disadvantage rather than gaining an advantage as no other club would routinely have to face a transatlantic flight prior to a game. The others only have to do the trip once (or the odd ones do it twice if in the same 8s group). If alternating home and away Toronto could face as many as 23 flights pre split plus up to 7 post split.

2) What has Derek Beaumont been doing then? Leigh also had a parachute payment this year (not meaning to pick on Leigh btw). A club backer doesn't need to be as rich as Argyle is, if they can fund full cap, they can compete financially. Ok most of the division aren't on the same financial footing but at least one team is capable of matching their cap spend. That one competitor could yet steal a march and grab promotion ahead of them. Part time Fev don't look like they will be shaken off too easily either despite the difference in finances.

Toronto have been in the UK for the first half of the season, and won't have had issues (more than any other club) around travel fatigue or time differences. For the second half of the season, all their games in Canada will be against teams that have had to travel across the Atlantic from a different time zone. Feels like a big advantage to me.

Fair comment around Leigh, but having a rich backer on its own doesn't mean that you can spend up to the full cap. Sustainability rules mean that you can only spend 50% of "relevant income" on salaries. With all the free tickets, relatively cheap season season tickets, and limited merchandise sales, how can they be paying for the players they've recruited using 50% of their income? It's possible they have some dispensation, but again that would be granting a massive advantage to them.

The half and half fixture list for this season does seem to work more in their favour you are correct, whilst it was due in part to the redevelopment of Lamport Stadium the RFL should really have insisted on them finding an alternative venue that was playable in Canada and stuck to the pattern of 4 game blocks alternating home and away that was used last season. I think in the future the pattern of 4 game blocks alternating home and away would be the fairest way to proceed with them or any other proposed NA clubs. Following a standard pattern of fixture alternating I think would disadvantage them too much while as you say having half and half blocks disadvantages the opponents.

Regarding Leigh, having Derek Beaumont backing them does mean they can spend the cap. It was him that got the RFL to equalise the caps between SL and Championship so that he could compete on an equal footing after the first qualifiers campaign by spending his money. I assume that money put in by the club owner (at any club) is able to be counted as relevant income (they all put money in to their club). Otherwise a club like Salford with poor crowds and lacking match day income from food etc. would probably be spending the same as Fev, Fax, Dewsbury and co.

The "relevant income" scenario is complex, but I don't believe that Director loans are included. Donations probably are, which is possibly a way round it (albeit it's a one-way street for the cash). Decent point about Salford, but I guess they have some corporate deals that will bring in some income, plus their marketing will bring in some cash as well.