[quote="Smiffy27":2fw1e6rk]I do remember Cooper making contact with Price and it didn't look good ... but can't remember any other examples can you? Lots of changes since then and I'm optimistic that we have moved on.[/quote:2fw1e6rk] Don't think there was anything in that. If you listen to the Wire in Bondi podcast that was posted on here a few months ago with Coops, he absolutely loves Price. Daryl Powell however...

[quote="Lord Tony Smith":1qhrcbxc]Don't think there was anything in that. If you listen to the Wire in Bondi podcast that was posted on here a few months ago with Coops, he absolutely loves Price. Daryl Powell however...[/quote:1qhrcbxc] Pleased if there was nothing in it. It is possible to bump into someone by accident.

[quote="Lord Tony Smith":2704oljt]Don't think there was anything in that. If you listen to the Wire in Bondi podcast that was posted on here a few months ago with Coops, he absolutely loves Price. Daryl Powell however...[/quote:2704oljt] Yeah I listened to the pod cast too. I am not convinced it was unavoidable. Price did not move. Guess we will never know.

[quote="Smiffy27":k50sp12u]Pleased if there was nothing in it. It is possible to bump into someone by accident.[/quote:k50sp12u] Of course it is. Accidents happen all the time. [url:k50sp12u]https://x.com/WhatBevan/status/1401418424983584772[/url:k50sp12u] [url:k50sp12u]https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/cooper-should-never-play-for-warrington-again-how-social-media-reacted-to-mike-coopers-barge-on-coach-steve-price-40030/[/url:k50sp12u]

[quote="Wires71":25d8vyg6]Of course it is. Accidents happen all the time. [/quote:25d8vyg6] Dead right. Anyway those days are behind us. So let's move on and look forward to the season. RL is back.

I think King will get an offer on much reduced terms, £50k on the cap is peanuts for a starting player. I get that there are tales about his application under Powell, but I would take most of that with a pinch of salt. As someone mentioned earlier, the Wire in Bondi podcast is quite illuminating, particularly Ellis Longstaff’s…

Yes Barb. That was a great podcast with Ellis. He nails home exactly what most people thought about Powell. And candid enough to let know the feeling of Stuart Middleton about Powell too, however nothing that SM had already publicly said in so many words about Powell, so it’s nothing Stuart could regard as a confidentiality letdown. Powell was a mistake that they allowed to go on far too long. Makes me think that the club should do something for Cooper and recognise the player he was to Warrington. A vailed showing Wire that they accept the mistake made letting him move on, but importantly, to restore an exit to retirement at Wire, in recognition to Coops that he never got to experience because of Powell.

Rumours on Saints and Wigan forums that we are in for Matty Lees for 2026.

[quote="Gaz3376":2bu7pet1]Rumours on Saints and Wigan forums that we are in for Matty Lees for 2026.[/quote:2bu7pet1] thats been posted on Warriors fans forum (if your not referring to the Wigan page on RL Fans) too by a usually reliable source on there. Also suggesting Knowles off to NRL

[quote="Gaz3376":o166nkwo]Rumours on Saints and Wigan forums that we are in for Matty Lees for 2026.[/quote:o166nkwo] His 2024 stats are a little underwhelming. Lees 258 carries for 1731m at 6.71 average gain. Vaughan 279 carries for 2290m at 8.21 average gain.

[quote="Wires71":2lohe4uv]His 2024 stats are a little underwhelming. Lees 258 carries for 1731m at 6.71 average gain. Vaughan 279 carries for 2290m at 8.21 average gain.[/quote:2lohe4uv] Teams very often have a designated prop to gain ground, Vaughan is certainly ours, we'll often set that up with Vaughan taking the carry immediately after a quick play the ball, in the same way Saints do with Walmsley (when he's fit). He defends well, tackle count was 2nd highest prop in SL last year for tackles made, though his missed tackle rate was higher than I would like. He is aggressive and defends well, my only concern with him would be discipline - has got a few bans in him. So IF we brought Lees in, alongside Byrne, that would give us a prop rotation of (in no particular order) Lees, Yates, Byrne, Harrison, Philbin plus youngsters. Hardworking but lacks punch I would say.

[quote="Alffi_7":3tudmjgg] So IF we brought Lees in, alongside Byrne, that would give us a prop rotation of (in no particular order) Lees, Yates, Byrne, Harrison, Philbin plus youngsters. Hardworking but lacks punch I would say.[/quote:3tudmjgg] Yep "big bopper" still required. But even with Lees and Byrne the pack has a little bit more aggression than we have currently. Surely we can find a NZ, Samoan or Tongan impact monster with a decent engine? A Patrick Mago 18 stone type.

[quote="Wires71":39sr1qre]His 2024 stats are a little underwhelming. Lees 258 carries for 1731m at 6.71 average gain. Vaughan 279 carries for 2290m at 8.21 average gain.[/quote:39sr1qre] Of course there is more to a player than just average gains like tackles, offloads, dummy runs & the important bits that cannot be measured. It would be interesting to see what sort of pack we'd come up with if we just selected the players with the best average gains in each position out of all the clubs.

[quote="Smiffy27":1dfu8iia]Of course there is more to a player than just average gains like tackles, offloads, dummy runs & the important bits that cannot be measured. It would be interesting to see what sort of pack we'd come up with if we just selected the players with the best average gains in each position out of all the clubs.[/quote:1dfu8iia] Of course there is more than stats but stats are important otherwise Opta wouldn't exist and performance teams wouldn't buy data from them or fit GPS trackers on players. To be honest in this age of robotic "middles" - stats like metres made and tackles vs missed tackles are quite telling. Stats showed Vaughan as head and shoulders our best prop. I wouldn't disagree with that.

[quote="Wires71":2w6mi0b1]Of course there is more than stats but stats are important otherwise Opta wouldn't exist and performance teams wouldn't buy data from them or fit GPS trackers on players. To be honest in this age of robotic "middles" - stats like metres made and tackles vs missed tackles are quite telling. Stats showed Vaughan as head and shoulders our best prop. I wouldn't disagree with that.[/quote:2w6mi0b1] Robotic, that’s what Roy Asotasi must have been but someone had removed his batteries.

IMO Lees is massively overrated.

[quote="karetaker":2mxdurio]Robotic, that’s what Roy Asotasi must have been but someone had removed his batteries.[/quote:2mxdurio] 100% Goal Kicking though, quite an impressive stat.

Lees is like many players that are with the best teams, they look great until they move and their short comings get found out. Great teams have great player mixed with not so great players.

[quote="Snaggletooth":hhgm2xv8]Lees is like many players that are with the best teams, they look great until they move and their short comings get found out. Great teams have great player mixed with not so great players.[/quote:hhgm2xv8] I agree with your sentiment that the best teams are usually the ones that operate optimally in the 'sum of the parts' principle. Therefore it follows, especially in a salary capped sport operating in a small gene pool, the club resources are used wisely (BTW look at the mess United are in now to see its not confined to our sport) The question is, is Lees expected to be that "great player" and rewarded as such or his availability being considered for the slightly lesser but equally important "sum of the parts" role?

[quote="Wires71":1bcv8uqv]Yep "big bopper" still required. But even with Lees and Byrne the pack has a little bit more aggression than we have currently. Surely we can find a NZ, Samoan or Tongan impact monster with a decent engine? A Patrick Mago 18 stone type.[/quote:1bcv8uqv] League Express reporting that we've missed out to Wakefield for NZ wrecking ball Caius Faatili. Not sure how accurate this report is given we don't have an available quota spot, mind.

[quote="Uncle Rico":dzzuqnxm]I agree with your sentiment that the best teams are usually the ones that operate optimally in the 'sum of the parts' principle. Therefore it follows, especially in a salary capped sport operating in a small gene pool, the club resources are used wisely (BTW look at the mess United are in now to see its not confined to our sport) The question is, is Lees expected to be that "great player" and rewarded as such or his availability being considered for the slightly lesser but equally important "sum of the parts" role?[/quote:dzzuqnxm] I agree, and its a discussion we've had on the Wigan forum's too. Not every player can be a world class operator, and they all have a relative market value on the cap, so if Burgess thinks he needs Matty Lees to lead his pack for example, then he'd probably pay good money, however, if he's seen as a valued squad member, then he'd probably get well paid, but not have a massive impact on the cap. I'd assume George Williams is your marquee (fed trained) so he couldn't take that slot and Toby King was your home grown marquee (not that it matters in relation to this particular discussion) In terms of his attributes, whilst he isnt the biggest metre maker, i think he is one of Saints defensive line leaders with Knowles. When Saints are performing, he is one of the ones who set that defensive line speed, and makes the big hits. Admittedly both he and Knowles dont always get it right, but they are trying to put such speed in to force errors / big it, its invariably going to be mis-timed every now and then

[quote="Lord Tony Smith":1vdqfl1m]League Express reporting that we've missed out to Wakefield for NZ wrecking ball Caius Faatili. Not sure how accurate this report is given we don't have an available quota spot, mind.[/quote:1vdqfl1m] It's a good job. That hair cut would be unacceptable this side of the pennines, but par for the course over in Wakefield. [img:1vdqfl1m]https://www.totalrl.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/MixCollage-28-Jan-2025-10-40-AM-6011-675x360.jpg[/img:1vdqfl1m]

Also our Strawberry Blonde quota spot is full

I think Lees would be a pretty good signing. He's a unit and has a bit of needle in him. Only 26 too. Would be the sort of player who could thrive under Sam and take his game up another level. Bryne and Lee's starting props, some size there. As Wires71 says, we're just missing an 18 stone wrecking ball impact prop off the bench, a la Mago or Satae.

Briers showed how to deal with a wrecking ball prop in that CC semi final v Wigan at Widnes. Wore him out with kicks.