[quote="The Speculator":6mbmo24g]It wouldn't surprise me if Saints were interested in Toby King for 2026. After all, if squad numbers are any indication, they appear to be going into this season with Hurrell and Percival still as their first-choice centres. Which is a tad surprising, given the various challenges faced by one or both of them in terms of age, fitness, proneness to injury, defensive frailty and midriff blubber.[/quote:6mbmo24g] If they do try to sign him, its not worth getting into a bidding war to keep him, just let him go.

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[quote="Smiffy27":12mejcu1]Does anyone actually know what King's deal is currently? Or are we working on the assumption that it was just big cos everyone says it is. Any ideas?[/quote:12mejcu1] What we know: 1. Various well connected people on here have commented that it was large and that we were contributing to his salary whilst on loan at Wigan. 2. He was a marquee signing for us* 3. We had to fight off interest from other SL clubs and the NRL** I suspect he will stay with us as he will only count at £50K on our cap. *** *https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/salary-cap-changes-make-toby-27055708 **https://warringtonwolves.com/news/2021/may/Toby-King-signs-new-long-term-deal/ ***https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/new-salary-cap-rules-for-super-league-to-help-protect-against-player-drain-to-the-nrl

[quote="RoyalWire":1ewq8jj0]If the salary is as high as we all think it is then it is highly unlikely to be maintained by ourselves or other interested parties. If we were to offer a new contract can it be on reduced terms or does it have to match the current one? [/quote:1ewq8jj0] A new contract can be on any terms mutually agreed. One thing to note is that he is cheap on the cap for us at £50K due to https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ne ... to-the-nrl. So we could pay him £200K per annum and it only counts as if we pay him £50K. This is a big incentive for us to extend. I don't care if we extend him or not. I do care if he keeps more talented attacking centres out of the side.

[quote="RoyalWire":1ewq8jj0]If the salary is as high as we all think it is then it is highly unlikely to be maintained by ourselves or other interested parties. If we were to offer a new contract can it be on reduced terms or does it have to match the current one? [/quote:1ewq8jj0] A new contract can be on any terms mutually agreed. One thing to note is that he is cheap on the cap for us at £50K due to https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ne ... to-the-nrl. So we could pay him £200K per annum and it only counts as if we pay him £50K. This is a big incentive for us to extend. I don't care if we extend him or not. I do care if he keeps more talented attacking centres out of the side.

Thanks Wires71 ... the fact that he is "Marquee" says a lot. I remember Wire working hard to try & keep him. He was playing well at the time.

[quote="The Speculator":16ocwx5j]It wouldn't surprise me if Saints were interested in Toby King for 2026. After all, if squad numbers are any indication, they appear to be going into this season with Hurrell and Percival still as their first-choice centres. Which is a tad surprising, given the various challenges faced by one or both of them in terms of age, fitness, proneness to injury, defensive frailty and midriff blubber.[/quote:16ocwx5j] If Saints do sign him, then there will be a major step change in the relationship between the two clubs with them signing our unwanted players, since they already have Clark.

[quote="Smiffy27":19jpqy6v]Thanks Wires71 ... the fact that he is "Marquee" says a lot. I remember Wire working hard to try & keep him. He was playing well at the time.[/quote:19jpqy6v] He was - the peak of his time with us. Then he signed mid season and went into the slump. I think he managed 2 tries that season after signing. Then, in 2022, cue Powell's man management accusing him of getting gout due to poor lifestyle and shipping him out. *https://www.totalrl.com/toby-king-reveals-how-gout-diagnosis-sowed-seeds-of-sour-daryl-powell-relationship-at-warrington-wolves/ To be honest we were a basket case then with stories of King bringing his dog to training, players purposefully barging into coaches when subbed*, and players being allowed to tailor their training around their business interests etc. I think Price wanted the easy life rather than confronting these issues. *https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/cooper-should-never-play-for-warrington-again-how-social-media-reacted-to-mike-coopers-barge-on-coach-steve-price-40030/ Purposeful or not you can bet your last £1 that Mike Cooper would not have barged into Sam Burgess (or Matt Peet). In closing I am not 100% sure that all that culture has been completely driven out of the squad and club. It may be supressed under Sam but I would not be surprised to see it creep back in when Sam eventually leaves. Some players have spanned Smith, Price, Powell and Burgess...

I do remember Cooper making contact with Price and it didn't look good ... but can't remember any other examples can you? Lots of changes since then and I'm optimistic that we have moved on.

[quote="Smiffy27":2fw1e6rk]I do remember Cooper making contact with Price and it didn't look good ... but can't remember any other examples can you? Lots of changes since then and I'm optimistic that we have moved on.[/quote:2fw1e6rk] Don't think there was anything in that. If you listen to the Wire in Bondi podcast that was posted on here a few months ago with Coops, he absolutely loves Price. Daryl Powell however...

[quote="Lord Tony Smith":1qhrcbxc]Don't think there was anything in that. If you listen to the Wire in Bondi podcast that was posted on here a few months ago with Coops, he absolutely loves Price. Daryl Powell however...[/quote:1qhrcbxc] Pleased if there was nothing in it. It is possible to bump into someone by accident.

[quote="Lord Tony Smith":2704oljt]Don't think there was anything in that. If you listen to the Wire in Bondi podcast that was posted on here a few months ago with Coops, he absolutely loves Price. Daryl Powell however...[/quote:2704oljt] Yeah I listened to the pod cast too. I am not convinced it was unavoidable. Price did not move. Guess we will never know.

[quote="Smiffy27":k50sp12u]Pleased if there was nothing in it. It is possible to bump into someone by accident.[/quote:k50sp12u] Of course it is. Accidents happen all the time. [url:k50sp12u]https://x.com/WhatBevan/status/1401418424983584772[/url:k50sp12u] [url:k50sp12u]https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/cooper-should-never-play-for-warrington-again-how-social-media-reacted-to-mike-coopers-barge-on-coach-steve-price-40030/[/url:k50sp12u]

[quote="Wires71":25d8vyg6]Of course it is. Accidents happen all the time. [/quote:25d8vyg6] Dead right. Anyway those days are behind us. So let's move on and look forward to the season. RL is back.

I think King will get an offer on much reduced terms, £50k on the cap is peanuts for a starting player. I get that there are tales about his application under Powell, but I would take most of that with a pinch of salt. As someone mentioned earlier, the Wire in Bondi podcast is quite illuminating, particularly Ellis Longstaff’s…

Yes Barb. That was a great podcast with Ellis. He nails home exactly what most people thought about Powell. And candid enough to let know the feeling of Stuart Middleton about Powell too, however nothing that SM had already publicly said in so many words about Powell, so it’s nothing Stuart could regard as a confidentiality letdown. Powell was a mistake that they allowed to go on far too long. Makes me think that the club should do something for Cooper and recognise the player he was to Warrington. A vailed showing Wire that they accept the mistake made letting him move on, but importantly, to restore an exit to retirement at Wire, in recognition to Coops that he never got to experience because of Powell.

Rumours on Saints and Wigan forums that we are in for Matty Lees for 2026.

[quote="Gaz3376":2bu7pet1]Rumours on Saints and Wigan forums that we are in for Matty Lees for 2026.[/quote:2bu7pet1] thats been posted on Warriors fans forum (if your not referring to the Wigan page on RL Fans) too by a usually reliable source on there. Also suggesting Knowles off to NRL

[quote="Gaz3376":o166nkwo]Rumours on Saints and Wigan forums that we are in for Matty Lees for 2026.[/quote:o166nkwo] His 2024 stats are a little underwhelming. Lees 258 carries for 1731m at 6.71 average gain. Vaughan 279 carries for 2290m at 8.21 average gain.

[quote="Wires71":2lohe4uv]His 2024 stats are a little underwhelming. Lees 258 carries for 1731m at 6.71 average gain. Vaughan 279 carries for 2290m at 8.21 average gain.[/quote:2lohe4uv] Teams very often have a designated prop to gain ground, Vaughan is certainly ours, we'll often set that up with Vaughan taking the carry immediately after a quick play the ball, in the same way Saints do with Walmsley (when he's fit). He defends well, tackle count was 2nd highest prop in SL last year for tackles made, though his missed tackle rate was higher than I would like. He is aggressive and defends well, my only concern with him would be discipline - has got a few bans in him. So IF we brought Lees in, alongside Byrne, that would give us a prop rotation of (in no particular order) Lees, Yates, Byrne, Harrison, Philbin plus youngsters. Hardworking but lacks punch I would say.

[quote="Alffi_7":3tudmjgg] So IF we brought Lees in, alongside Byrne, that would give us a prop rotation of (in no particular order) Lees, Yates, Byrne, Harrison, Philbin plus youngsters. Hardworking but lacks punch I would say.[/quote:3tudmjgg] Yep "big bopper" still required. But even with Lees and Byrne the pack has a little bit more aggression than we have currently. Surely we can find a NZ, Samoan or Tongan impact monster with a decent engine? A Patrick Mago 18 stone type.

[quote="Wires71":39sr1qre]His 2024 stats are a little underwhelming. Lees 258 carries for 1731m at 6.71 average gain. Vaughan 279 carries for 2290m at 8.21 average gain.[/quote:39sr1qre] Of course there is more to a player than just average gains like tackles, offloads, dummy runs & the important bits that cannot be measured. It would be interesting to see what sort of pack we'd come up with if we just selected the players with the best average gains in each position out of all the clubs.

[quote="Smiffy27":1dfu8iia]Of course there is more to a player than just average gains like tackles, offloads, dummy runs & the important bits that cannot be measured. It would be interesting to see what sort of pack we'd come up with if we just selected the players with the best average gains in each position out of all the clubs.[/quote:1dfu8iia] Of course there is more than stats but stats are important otherwise Opta wouldn't exist and performance teams wouldn't buy data from them or fit GPS trackers on players. To be honest in this age of robotic "middles" - stats like metres made and tackles vs missed tackles are quite telling. Stats showed Vaughan as head and shoulders our best prop. I wouldn't disagree with that.

[quote="Wires71":2w6mi0b1]Of course there is more than stats but stats are important otherwise Opta wouldn't exist and performance teams wouldn't buy data from them or fit GPS trackers on players. To be honest in this age of robotic "middles" - stats like metres made and tackles vs missed tackles are quite telling. Stats showed Vaughan as head and shoulders our best prop. I wouldn't disagree with that.[/quote:2w6mi0b1] Robotic, that’s what Roy Asotasi must have been but someone had removed his batteries.

IMO Lees is massively overrated.

[quote="karetaker":2mxdurio]Robotic, that’s what Roy Asotasi must have been but someone had removed his batteries.[/quote:2mxdurio] 100% Goal Kicking though, quite an impressive stat.