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| What seems to happen with RL these is like sticking a plaster on that hole in the Titanic . The structure has alienated clubs & their fans by condemning them to hopeless futures. No chance of joining the big time , & how about the CC ,the seeding system has removed any romance from the competition that for many teams was knocking a big team out of the cup. No wonder we can't fill Wembley.
Perhaps a competition involving all the clubs in one division would even work with lower clubs having the chance to welcome the big boys to town every now & then & maybe produce an upset , especially if big teams had to field x amount of youngsters.
And what about a name ? How about British Rugby League or British RL as was mentioned by a previous poster ? Nobody would pinch that name unless they introduced a ball into kabbadi.
Lastly, we need proper influential businessmen running the show to provide the best media deals . Look at RU ,all the top advertisers ,multi channel coverage ,elite patrons waving flags for the sport & drawing top name sponsors. Most of these people will be rubbing shoulders regularly with media moguls, probably all been at university together.
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| Quote ="ninearches"What seems to happen with RL these is like sticking a plaster on that hole in the Titanic . The structure has alienated clubs & their fans by condemning them to hopeless futures. No chance of joining the big time , & how about the CC ,the seeding system has removed any romance from the competition that for many teams was knocking a big team out of the cup. No wonder we can't fill Wembley.
Perhaps a competition involving all the clubs in one division would even work with lower clubs having the chance to welcome the big boys to town every now & then & maybe produce an upset , especially if big teams had to field x amount of youngsters.
And what about a name ? How about British Rugby League or British RL as was mentioned by a previous poster ? Nobody would pinch that name unless they introduced a ball into kabbadi.
Lastly, we need proper influential businessmen running the show to provide the best media deals . Look at RU ,all the top advertisers ,multi channel coverage ,elite patrons waving flags for the sport & drawing top name sponsors. Most of these people will be rubbing shoulders regularly with media moguls, probably all been at university together.'"
Clubs never hit the higher accolade without MONEY.. Simple if you have none goodnight amigo. That’s the way it’s been since the start of SL. Guess what SL the product is still here.
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| Quote ="Trainman"
The thing that annoys me most is the constant changing of format, the sport needs a long term business plan and a long term structure.
.'"
This is THE most important issue with the sport of RL.
We chop and change, looking for the proverbial silver bullet and each time there is a change, we actually lose fans from the game.
There has to be an achievable plan for the next 5, 10 and 20 years for all of the sport from U8's right up to SL.
Set goals and achieve them and not keep changing for the sake of it.
RL looks half baked and unprofessional.
Of course there are plenty of good things about the game but, the internal struggles between SL, the lower leagues and the amateur game, helps no one.
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| Quote ="Donnyman"hat do you mean by that?
As for Leeds "on the outside" what do you mean? They have a very very rich owner who is richer than either Lenegan or McManus don't they? He chooses not to take the reigns of the sport whilst Pearson Lenagan and McManus choose to take a leading role. They aren't dictators though, every club has the same one vote.
It's the same old same old where jealousy appears to lie at the heart of the attack on the prominent rich owners who may lead the sport, but I don't see them dictating anything much?
Remember that this SKY deal has been a long one. It's the last year now, and this is a deal Lenegan, Pearson and McManus did not vote for, they actually lost the vote to people like Michael Carter Gary Hetherington and Ian Fulton. If there's no strategy then go see them and ask them about it??
They can tell you all about their "£Million Pound Game" "strategy, how did that go then??'"
Lenegan and McManus both voted for
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| An interesting thought, if we had 2 teams of 10 in a SL 1 & 2 perhaps teams could play each team in their division twice and the other division once thus removing loop fixtures and better preparing SL2 teams should they get promoted.
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| Quote ="Trainman"An interesting thought, if we had 2 teams of 10 in a SL 1 & 2 perhaps teams could play each team in their division twice and the other division once thus removing loop fixtures and better preparing SL2 teams should they get promoted.'"
The elephant in the room is, how on earth do "we" fund 20 clubs ?
Right now, there are 12 SL clubs and only 2 or 3 contenders in The Championship, plus, the "sleeping giant" that is Bradford.
IMO there will be a drive to reduce SL to 10 clubs, which has been nuted many times.
It may be "sold" on the basis of having SL 1 & SL2 but, this just isn't possible with the reduction in Sky monies.
Unless there is another broadcaster out there that is willing to "compete" with Sky, as a sport, we looked screwed.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"This is THE most important issue with the sport of RL.
We chop and change, looking for the proverbial silver bullet and each time there is a change, we actually lose fans from the game.
There has to be an achievable plan for the next 5, 10 and 20 years for all of the sport from U8's right up to SL.
Set goals and achieve them and not keep changing for the sake of it.
RL looks half baked and unprofessional.
Of course there are plenty of good things about the game but, the internal struggles between SL, the lower leagues and the amateur game, helps no one.'"
The goal for youth getting to SL has been most disappointing. No pathways other than grubby tactics. If the restructure comes offf and they forget the youth this time (not academies) the community game with proper regulations in place. Not there’s £500 and see you later to see that player left to dwindle when they make the grade.
Sod the academies get community game looked after. That’s the future not the product.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"This is THE most important issue with the sport of RL.
We chop and change, looking for the proverbial silver bullet and each time there is a change, we actually lose fans from the game.
There has to be an achievable plan for the next 5, 10 and 20 years for all of the sport from U8's right up to SL.
Set goals and achieve them and not keep changing for the sake of it.
RL looks half baked and unprofessional.
Of course there are plenty of good things about the game but, the internal struggles between SL, the lower leagues and the amateur game, helps no one.'"
The goal for youth getting to SL has been most disappointing. No pathways other than grubby tactics. If the restructure comes offf and they forget the youth this time (not academies) the community game with proper regulations in place. Not there’s £500 and see you later to see that player left to dwindle when they don’t make the grade.
Sod the academies get community game looked after. That’s the future not the product.
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| Quote ="Trainman"I’m very much in favour of promotion and relegation with a caveat. We simply must have a full time second tier for it to happen.
The thing that annoys me most is the constant changing of format, the sport needs a long term business plan and a long term structure.
When you compare us to other sports most obviously RU the biggest difference is the international game. rU took off after England won the World Cup. On top of that casual viewers are more likely to tune in to internationals, some of those then start to watch the domestic game and follow teams. I’ve said this before we need to properly sort out the internationals and have regular fixtures not the odd game here and there.'"
Does RU have a full time second tier ?? Be surprised if it does
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| Quote ="atomic"The goal for youth getting to SL has been most disappointing. No pathways other than grubby tactics. If the restructure comes offf and they forget the youth this time (not academies) the community game with proper regulations in place. Not there’s £500 and see you later to see that player left to dwindle when they don’t make the grade.
Sod the academies get community game looked after. That’s the future not the product.'"
I get what you are saying but where is the motivation for kids when you can earn more money working in a supermarket?
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| Quote ="Steph Curry"I get what you are saying but where is the motivation for kids when you can earn more money working in a supermarket?'"
This.
Some of the salaries a young player playing first grade is on is disgraceful.
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| Quote ="Steph Curry"I get what you are saying but where is the motivation for kids when you can earn more money working in a supermarket?'"
I played for nowt, Love of sport when I was a kid. Maybe that’s what the sport is missing. You start RL well before earning a wage. You breed the players they just don’t suddenly appear.
That’s always from a community club, not academies. Who have already taken from the community.
The best players I have seen have come from the heartland community clubs. Some don’t and will never understand that.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"The elephant in the room is, how on earth do "we" fund 20 clubs ?
Right now, there are 12 SL clubs and only 2 or 3 contenders in The Championship, plus, the "sleeping giant" that is Bradford.
IMO there will be a drive to reduce SL to 10 clubs, which has been nuted many times.
It may be "sold" on the basis of having SL 1 & SL2 but, this just isn't possible with the reduction in Sky monies.
Unless there is another broadcaster out there that is willing to "compete" with Sky, as a sport, we looked screwed.'"
The move to change the second tier from an RFL Championship to a Superleague second division does not involve professionalising the "Superleague 2" competition.
I have no doubt if rich owners in that second tier wish to pay for professionalism themselves that will be allowed as you can't stifle ambition nor stop a second tier club readying itself for a tilt at Superleague One.
But I see no plan to share the SKY money 20 ways, it's very clear to me the drop to 10 means the 10 Superleague 1 clubs will get all the TV funding because the top division will provide SKY with top class content.
The plan is to remove the RFL from controlling the division that will provide promoted clubs to Superleague one, leaving Superleague fully in charge of P & R.
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| Quote ="Donnyman"The move to change the second tier from an RFL Championship to a Superleague second division does not involve professionalising the "Superleague 2" competition.
I have no doubt if rich owners in that second tier wish to pay for professionalism themselves that will be allowed as you can't stifle ambition nor stop a second tier club readying itself for a tilt at Superleague One.
But I see no plan to share the SKY money 20 ways, it's very clear to me the drop to 10 means the 10 Superleague 1 clubs will get all the TV funding because the top division will provide SKY with top class content.
The plan is to remove the RFL from controlling the division that will provide promoted clubs to Superleague one, leaving Superleague fully in charge of P & R.'"
I’m unsure how you drop 2 from SL1. If it’s 10 then there is no promotion. The P is void and the R is another thread.
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| Quote ="atomic"I played for nowt, Love of sport when I was a kid. Maybe that’s what the sport is missing. You start RL well before earning a wage. You breed the players they just don’t suddenly appear.
That’s always from a community club, not academies. Who have already taken from the community.
The best players I have seen have come from the heartland community clubs. Some don’t and will never understand that.'"
Well yes of course but it's once players become professional and this is there job.
Should a player playing first grade be earning amounts like £20k a year?
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| Quote ="Clearwing"icon_lol.gif
Lenegan and McManus both voted for'"
Yes fair play You are right McManus voted for but Lenegan did not vote for.
Nor did Hudgell, Pearson, Koukash, Davey and Moran. Les Catalans as guests did not vote.
The vote on the SKY deal was split 7-6 for, as Martyn Sadler reported on January 20th. 2014.
Sadler explained that once the vote had been taken and the clubs were split, the protocol was for the losers to concede to the majority and a second vote was taken so a unanimous result and a united front could be shown shown to the world.
But on the second vote Koukash still voted against. As the seasons passed by McManus started to associate more with the six "rebels" who have spent seven years looking to wrest all control of the Superleague from the RFL. Their time has come now which is clear from the fact Lenegan & co negotiated the next TV deal for themselves and Ralph Rimmer was left in the cold...........
What we see now is Lenegan and McManus looking to wrest control of P & R from the RFL.
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| Quote ="orangeman"The Problem with the game is that it doesn't know what it wants.
2021: Huddersfield Giants, Salford Red Devils, Wakefield Trinity Wildcats, Hull Kingston Rovers and Leigh Centurions are battling it out to avoid the drop. Whichever one is unfortunate enough to go, will in all likelihood be replaced by Toulouse Olympique or Featherstone Rovers..
Your average British person when asked, wouldn't be able to find Huddersfield, Salford, Wakefield, Featherstone or Leigh on a map, let alone know that Hull has not 1 but 2 Rugby League teams.
=#FF0000Neither would they be able to find Warrington, Wigan, St Helens or Castleford,
4 of our current best & biggest Club's !!!
That is the problem faced by Super League and the game in general. After a quarter of a Century of chopping and changing, the game doesn't know what it is, where it should be played or what it wants.
If it's happy not to expand, then keep P&R and hope that the monotony of the same teams winning is alleviated by the excitement of relegation, but the reality is that Featherstone replacing Wakefield won't garner the same headlines as Catalans winning the challenge cup.'"
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| Quote ="Trainman"rU took off after England won the World Cup..'"
URBAN MYTH #365.
Twickenham capacity was 72,000 in 2002. They filled it 2 times that year and 3 times the following year before heading to Australia for the RUWC.
Decades of FTA coverage on the BBC for games like Ireland v Wales, or Scotland v France built a "must see" attitude to the 5 and then 6 nations. Italy v France in Union on BBC2 now gets a comparable TV audience to England v Australia in League.
REGULAR GAMES.....in FTA TV, with buy-in from the broadcaster over decades is what we will never get, so stop hanging your hat on internationals as the saviour. With only three viable teams, it's a non starter.
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| Quote ="atomic"I’m unsure how you drop 2 from SL1. '"
Well the top SL bosses have championed 2x10 so I assume they will organise who is to be "dropped".
Obvious way they may do this is, is to repeat how they chose the clubs for licensing. Work out criteria that gives them the result they want, stuff like "being an English club" is a required criteria,
I also have an idea that whatever criteria they choose Leigh may somehow fit it.....Or maybe even Bradford? They could bring in Nigel Wood to help with the process as he did this before? Do Salford have any money?
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| Quote ="Donnyman"Well the top SL bosses have championed 2x10 so I assume they will organise who is to be "dropped".
Obvious way they may do this is, is to repeat how they chose the clubs for licensing. Work out criteria that gives them the result they want, stuff like "being an English club" is a required criteria,
I also have an idea that whatever criteria they choose Leigh may somehow fit it.....Or maybe even Bradford? They could bring in Nigel Wood to help with the process as he did this before? Do Salford have any money?'"
Is it the Super League club owners organising the restructure - or is it Sky demanding changes?
Which ' independent ' panel has the jurisdiction?
Will a video and a report have to be furnished?
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| Quote ="Donnyman"Well the top SL bosses have championed 2x10 so I assume they will organise who is to be "dropped".
Obvious way they may do this is, is to repeat how they chose the clubs for licensing. Work out criteria that gives them the result they want, stuff like "being an English club" is a required criteria,
I also have an idea that whatever criteria they choose Leigh may somehow fit it.....Or maybe even Bradford? They could bring in Nigel Wood to help with the process as he did this before? Do Salford have any money?'"
Criteria lol. They make it up as they go along
Remember the criteria regarding stadiums and what a joke that become when they just ignored it and 10 years later still no stadiums for certain clubs.
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| Quote ="orangeman"Your average British person when asked, wouldn't be able to find Huddersfield, Salford, Wakefield, Featherstone or Leigh on a map, let alone know that Hull has not 1 but 2 Rugby League teams.'"
I dare say they wouldn't know where Wigan, Warrington or St Helens were either. Is that not the issue with image too when the top clubs come from small towns?
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| Quote ="Ornery Optimist"Is it the Super League club owners organising the restructure - or is it Sky demanding changes?
Which ' independent ' panel has the jurisdiction?
Will a video and a report have to be furnished?'"
Doubt it's sky when the deal is only for 2 years.
A competition where teams are playing each other multiple times I don't think is good for any broadcaster.
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| Quote ="ColD"Does RU have a full time second tier ?? Be surprised if it does'"
The eleven-side league was known as National Division One and in 2009 changed from semi-professional clubs to fully professional.
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| Quote ="orangeman"URBAN MYTH #365.
Twickenham capacity was 72,000 in 2002. They filled it 2 times that year and 3 times the following year before heading to Australia for the RUWC.
Decades of FTA coverage on the BBC for games like Ireland v Wales, or Scotland v France built a "must see" attitude to the 5 and then 6 nations. Italy v France in Union on BBC2 now gets a comparable TV audience to England v Australia in League.
REGULAR GAMES.....in FTA TV, with buy-in from the broadcaster over decades is what we will never get, so stop hanging your hat on internationals as the saviour. With only three viable teams, it's a non starter.'"
So the established international game, that was exactly my point. They may have filled Twickenham on a regular basis but casual and TV viewers most certainly increased following the World Cup win.
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