Nice to see you sticking up for your little mini me chum though smokey. You make a lovely couple!

Why are you still unable to differentiate between having a good on-field team and being a strong club? If a billionaire invested in Featherstone and bought the best players and coaches, sorted out the infrastructure and virtually made them a model club, then the benefit to the game wouldn't be as much as if, for example, the billionaire had done the same thing at a club like Salford with a far bigger untapped catchment area. If Featherstone won Super League they would still not be a particularly big club, the area is already saturated with RL, there is very little potential for growth and honestly they probably do well to be as big as they currently are. And the whole argument is completely irrelevant because there is virtually no chance of this happening. Not because they 'can't be promoted' (

), but because Featherstone is not the type of club or town that is going to attract investment, for obvious reasons.

I understand Headhunters' valid point.

Somewhere between what they have done ( which consists of gimmicks like the NRC 9 s, Toulouses inclusion with different rules, and a non paying midweek TV deal ) and what you suggest, but essentially looking at where clubs actually need help and using money to achieve that help, but not giving it to hotels and airlines

We need the fans of our towns wanting to attend matches at our stadiums, not to attend SL games, or to attend SL GFs and Internationals , it is strange that never having bought a SL ticket via the interet but having bought Interational tikets from the RFL, i now find myself on SL club databases

Most if not all non SL clubs will have little money or expertise to spend on marketing it is there where money could be spent, so no, dont blindly give Championship clubs money, but spend it ON them where it will most benifit them

I think the point he's making is that that, because the game is so strongly based in the heartlands that there's a great deal of overlap with a lot of clubs. Most championship clubs have at least one if not more than one SL neighbour and that is going to take away from those championship clubs.

So basically you are suggesting that only people and investors from Featherstone will watch or invest in Featherstone, well it doesnt neccessarily work like that, does it? , with enough money any club could build as big a fan base as they want, given success paid for by a rich benefactor, however THE biggest problem to investement outside SL is the glass ceiling system we currently have

Yep - I get where he's coming from now.

Me too rich, especially when SL clubs get access to my e mail address despite me never having contacted them via the internet, but i have contacted the RFL to purchase International tickets

No, it's the fact that the vast majority of the clubs are based in small, no-name towns with intense local competition from much bigger, more affluent places and very little potential for growth. Unless they were from the area, I can't really envisage a situation where anyone with any sort of money would ever want to spend any time, let alone invest in somewhere like Leigh or Featherstone. The likelihood is that the vast, vast majority of people in the country, particularly wealthy people, will have never heard of those places and have no idea where they are. Regardless of the fact that the licensing system is far more appealing to investors, to suggest that something like that is the biggest obstacle to investment for those clubs is absolutely ridiculous.

Wether you see it likely is irrelivant , it could happen , and the lack of guaranteed promotion is a huge obstacle to investement wether you think it is or isn't

Rugby is and always wil be a minority sport, but is still an enjoyable sport

That's rubbish and you know it! If a rich backer came in and spent big on any championship club, bought them a squad and coach, bought them a jnr set up, bought them a stadium, discounted tickets to get 3,000 through the gate etc etc then they would be guaranteed promotion. As you well know the likes of Featherstone, Leigh or Halifax attracting a multimillioanire backer willing to pump in the milion pound a year they would need to acheive this is very unlikely.

Unlikely ? , yes, impossible ? , no, but HKR did something very similar, but much less likely now, would Mr Hudgell be willing to bankroll Rovers for 3/6/9 years to achieve SL status if they were still a Championship club now?

This thread was about investement and expansion, unfortunatley now, one only goes with the other, if you arent an expansion club you wont get any investement, and the investement needed for an expansion club is much more than what would be needed for a non expansion club, so less likely

So will we see investement and expansion? , No

yes I agree it is not likely to happen but it would be great if it did look at the advert for the game if it did some rich nut with plenty of money bought a small team the papers would be full of it still we can dream

Semantics - the term growth or expansion are interchangable in that arguement - if you expand into other areas and participation is increased then you are growing the sport.

Expansion can only be used exclusively if you move into other areas and overall participation remains static.

My take on it as well, if we had still the same number of clubs, but twice as many people playing and watching ( although the OP was reffering to the pro clubs, so attendance was the point he was making ) then the sport is expanding, and would be a whole lot healthier to boot

Did you see the Harlequins/Saracens game on the TV yesterday?

Which is partly the non SL club fans argument, if all you do is replace fans in Leigh, Keighley or Blackpool with fans in Bristol, Northampton or Wrexham, you havent grown the sport, expanded it ? , yes, grown it ? , No

I'd love for RL to be the biggest sport with major press coverage, big name sponsors, the game being played in every part of the world and 30,000 + capacity stadiums to be filled out each week but sadly I can't see it happening.

For now we need to expand

I'd rather we looked at Yank Football as a measuring stick for our domestic competition. Football football shouldn't be looked to at all! It's the worst idea ever to compare ourselves to them and look at what they do, because football is prehistoric in many ways. The set-up they have and what they do as a sport has nothing to do with their dominance. To look at football and say "that's what we need to do", it will be a big mistake.

We need a quality competition, SL cannot be the Premier League, we can't have an uneven competition made up of crap teams and dominated by 2 or 3 teams. Football is already popular, so they have the luxury of being able to get away with having the crappest, least competitive and most boring competitions on the planet - we don't have that luxury.

The only way to have a strong international competition and to in time expand the game is to have strong domestic comps, that's not going to happen if SL embraces every non-English team on a whim in the name of "expansion". People want to expand for the sake of expanding. People want to expand when the expansion is clearly detrimental to the competitiveness and quality of the SL. Already there's too much dead weight in the SL, watering down the talent and devaluing the quality of the competition. Nobody seems to want the competition to be the best it can be, because they have deluded ideals and an inferiority complex that makes them embarrassed to watch a sport that isn't internationally popular, or popular nationwide.

I can say hand on heart that I don't care if Wales or France can compete internationally, I don't care if there's a Southern, Welsh or French domestic team in the SL. It really doesn't bother me. All I want is a good competition that's competitive, financially viable, offering a good spectacle and sells tickets/attracts tv viewers. There's 4, possibly 5, 6 teams too many in the SL. We need less games, more competition and a focus on the quality of the competition and the quality only.

There needs to be something like a 30-50 year plan to develop the SL, grass roots and reach of the code. Ideally I'm sure everyone wants expansion and lots of teams, but it needs to be viable and long-term, it needs to be born of merit while adding something to the SL. I sometimes get the feeling that the people in control of the game, the fans too, are jumping the gun with many expansion and growth ideas. It's running before walking in some ways, SL needs to be strengthened(by reducing teams or splitting into groups - like the NFL) and professionalised/commercialised fully, first and foremost. I would rather a game that's very popular amongst Northern yokels in flat caps than a game that's "meh" across the UK. Already we're in danger of losing some RL hotspots to football.

Expansion and development of grass roots and "feeder" competitions has to continue and is a great thing, we've made many wonderful inroads, but success and development outside of the SL shouldn't be answered with inclusion into the SL. I would like to see RL as a sport and the SL as a competition separated a little more. Too many teams are knocking on the door and the door is being opened up, they're being invited in. I don't agree with that. Teams need to prove themselves, show themselves to be viable franchises with genuine capacity to challenge established SL teams, they need to be able to KICK the door off the bloody hinges. And if teams cannot hold their own, they need to be thrown out on their . I don't want to name names because I can't be d arguing with fans from certain teams but there's at least 4 teams who need removing from the SL as soon as possible.

Unfortunately the sort of people we need involved with the game to first strengthen the SL and return the glory to the heartlands, then strengthen and expand the code, they're financially out of reach. We need great revolutionary people, we need marketers and business moguls, to get those people we need money, how we get the money I don't know! Perhaps the SL should offer the broadcasting rights to oil-rich Middle Eastern theocratic TV stations for free, hoping that some Saudi prince takes a liking to the game. Or give Spike TV in America the broadcasting rights for free, they carried the NRL the other year and made UFC very popular, a few Yank investors could be good value. A few nutters, eccentrics and rich people willing to invest could go a long way. Look at what Russel Crowe did, he single-handedly kept the Rabbitohs afloat. I would like to see the SL identify and involve influential and wealthy fans a little more. I know some PL players are fans of the game, as are some actors and I'm sure some successful business people.

I realise a lot of people will think I'm barking mad and nobody ever agrees on these things, but one thing I'm sure most can agree with is that whether you want to strengthen the game with reach/expansion or quality/competition, there's a stumbling block, that being an absence of money that isn't already tied up.

I can't tell you how you make these things happen, I'm just a drunk with ideas. It would be nice though if we heard from the people running the SL, if they gave us a long term plan and something to hold on to, something to support and involve ourselves with. I would like to see a SL Manifesto.

If all else fails e could perhaps band together and start a political party, voting ourselves into power in RL regions, outlawing rival sports and funneling council money into the game.

Do we need to expand though? I think it would be great if the SL was a big sport in the North with a team in France with major press coverage, big name sponsors and 20,000 + average crowds.

That's a realistic goal. There is no reason for that not to be an achievable reality in 20 years, even 10 years with enough money freed up to invest into the competition. It's not likely, but if that was the focus of the SL it could be.

Even if the SL had all that though, people would complain that there's no teams in the South or in Wales etc, that there's not enough teams, that there's only a handful of internationally competitive countries. People are too open minded, we need to be more insular. We need a Northern, Rugby League answer to US Politician Ron Paul.

Exactly what I said, it is only expansion if you move into other areas and participation remains static. It is growth if participation increases on the back of a move into new areas - glad you have finally accepted the point

American Football: Franchises instead of promotion and relegation. Teams primarily located in big cities far apart from each other. Few away fans. Draft system to ensure best players are spread put evenly. Huge following at college (university) level, with football bursarships seen as a route to a good education. Teams relocated (Cleveland Rams to Los Angeles and then to St. Louis, Chicago Cardinals to Arizona etc).

Comment of the year old son

Im just greedy, i want expansion and growth