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| There isn't a team on the planet that wouldn't sign Graham in a heatbeat.
Fortunately for the NRL they now get to duck addressing a completely incompetent refereeing performance.
As for Bill Harrigan's ridiculous [i"What if he'd broken his leg?"[/i remark.
I'd say, [i"It wasn't intentional. Rugby League is a tough game"[/i.
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| Take a look at that incident again - because it's a microcosm for the depressing direction the game is heading.
You have a player (nay a Captain) who has sweat blood for the cause. He's sustained a fearful gash to his head, left the field, been sewed up and returned at the same intensity. We're in the last few minutes. The Dogs are defending a deserved lead. The Rabbitohs have moments left to snatch the game and on the final tackle dump the ball off for the kick.
Graham performs a superhuman charge and fully extends himself horizontally in a true no-guts-no-glory attempt at the ball. Bear in mind that this is a 100kg prop in mid air. Not a Patriot missile which can "Abort" should something go wrong.
There isn't a supporter on the planet that wouldn't kill for that kind of effort from one of their players defending a slim lead in the dying seconds.
And yet Graham is PENALISED for his Herculean effort and the subsequent penalty costs them the game.
Had he gone for the player deliberately I'd have no problem with the decision. But clearly it's more important that we prevent fictional injuries from occurring than support factual great play rendered without a shred of malice.
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| Quote ="Mugwump"Take a look at that incident again - because it's a microcosm for the depressing direction the game is heading.
You have a player (nay a Captain) who has sweat blood for the cause. He's sustained a fearful gash to his head, left the field, been sewed up and returned at the same intensity. We're in the last few minutes. The Dogs are defending a deserved lead. The Rabbitohs have moments left to snatch the game and on the final tackle dump the ball off for the kick.
Graham performs a superhuman charge and fully extends himself horizontally in a true no-guts-no-glory attempt at the ball. Bear in mind that this is a 100kg prop in mid air. Not a Patriot missile which can "Abort" should something go wrong.
There isn't a supporter on the planet that wouldn't kill for that kind of effort from one of their players defending a slim lead in the dying seconds.
And yet Graham is PENALISED for his Herculean effort and the subsequent penalty costs them the game.
Had he gone for the player deliberately I'd have no problem with the decision. But clearly it's more important that we prevent fictional injuries from occurring than support factual great play rendered without a shred of malice.'"
What makes me laugh is when people say how much better the NRL refs are compared to the officials here in Super League.
The NRL refs are shocking. And it's no surprises considering Tony Archer is their boss.
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| It was a dangerous tackle/charge-down attempt that put the kicker in real danger of injury (and possibly did cause an injury?) - worthy of a penalty for me. Although the ref got the place awfully wrong.
Don't care much for Graham's diva antics either. Him trying to justify Kasiano's knee and Morris' kick to the head of Isaac Luke was embarrassing.
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| Quote ="Wigg'n"It was a dangerous tackle/charge-down attempt '"
Rugby League is a dangerous game. It was in no way deliberate. As such - suck it up or quit.
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| Quote ="TheElectricGlidingWarrior"The official laws contradict his opinion in this instance
'"
I didn't say he was right but then again I didn't say he was wrong
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| Quote ="Wigg'n"It was a dangerous tackle/charge-down attempt that put the kicker in real danger of injury (and possibly did cause an injury?) - worthy of a penalty for me. Although the ref got the place awfully wrong.'"
No, the place where the penalty was taken was 100% correct.
It was the actual call that sucked. Graham wasn't even looking where he was diving. He dived before the ball left the foot, his head was tilted to the side, he was going for the ball and the ball only.
Horrible call by Sutton.....and it's not the first time him or his idiot brother have made one.
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| Quote ="rob_a"I didn't say he was right but then again I didn't say he was wrong
'"
Oh so you weren't trying to imply it was a foul just because the referee thought so, you were just making a completely pointless statement of the obvious.
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| Personally I think it's a penalty. It's probably frustrating in the sense that other similar situations aren't penalised but I think Graham has a duty of care to not dive at a player's leg.
I totally agree it wasn't deliberate. But kickers are in a very vulnerable position and, like players jumping to catch a high ball, should be protected a little.
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| Quote ="WireFanatic III"No, the place where the penalty was taken was 100% correct.
It was the actual call that sucked. Graham wasn't even looking where he was diving. He dived before the ball left the foot, his head was tilted to the side, he was going for the ball and the ball only.
Horrible call by Sutton.....and it's not the first time him or his idiot brother have made one.'"
My bad, pretty stupid rule though.
Drop Goal 10.
(a) If a player fouls an opponent who is attempting a
Foul Play drop goal, a penalty kick shall be awarded in front
on Kicker of the goal posts.
Regardless of him going for the ball, he missed and collided with the legs of a vulnerable kicker. As it is, Reynolds "only" has ligament damage (rather than a broken leg) and is out for 5 months.
Your hatred and bias of the Sutton referees is noted.
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| Quote ="Him"Personally I think it's a penalty. It's probably frustrating in the sense that other similar situations aren't penalised but I think Graham has a duty of care to not dive at a player's leg.
I totally agree it wasn't deliberate. But kickers are in a very vulnerable position and, like players jumping to catch a high ball, should be protected a little.'"
Players get injured in legal challenges. It doesn't become a foul because an injury occurs, it's just unfortunate. The law clearly stipulates that Graham shouldn't have been penalised.
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| Quote ="TheElectricGlidingWarrior"Except it wasn't a foul'"
Except it was. He made contact with the kicker's planted leg, which is a huge and well-known no-no in the NRL, and an automatic penalty - moreso when it's the kicker's planted leg. And because it was in the act of kicking a drop-goal the penalty is 10 metres out from the sticks - which is the rule very few people knew.
As Bill Harrigan put it, "the player performing the charge down cannot under any circumstances come into contact with the kicker’s leg." Directives to this effect have been issued several times in the NRL since around 2007 following a few bad incidents.
Some people seem to think it being 'accidental' excuses the outcome. It doesn't. The onus is on Graham not to make dangerous contact. Whether he slipped or not is irrelevant.
Again, whether you like it or not the referee was correct.
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| If we're penalising players for busting a gut to win the game without a shred of malice there's a serious problem with the game.
I'm sorry but if it's a choice between "potential" injuries to a kicker or penalising the kind of never-say-die spirit manifested in hard but fair play I'll take the injury [uevery time[/u.
We should not be protecting kickers from unintentional consequences of non-malicious actions. Period.
What next - boxing without punches to the head?!?!
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| Quote ="Him"Personally I think it's a penalty. It's probably frustrating in the sense that other similar situations aren't penalised but I think Graham has a duty of care to not dive at a player's leg.
I totally agree it wasn't deliberate. But kickers are in a very vulnerable position and, like players jumping to catch a high ball, should be protected a little.'"
I agree with that. Whilst I don't think Graham meant to collide with or hurt the guy, too often we see guys flying into kickers knowing the ball is gone but hoping to shake them up or hurt them (not seriously perhaps but enough to effect their game or at least miss the rest of the particular game in question).
See the charge at Sinfield by Michael Monaghan in the '12 GF that had Sinfield out on the floor. Granted as some of the commentators say, he can't avoid colliding with Sinfield at that speed but the way he dips his head is very unnatural and looks like he was trying to give him a nut on the head.
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| Graham's duty of care starts and finishes with not intentionally injuring an opponent.
We have no business making kickers a protected species and penalising accidental injury. Whether the ref was right or wrong according to the rules - that ending was a BAD advert for the sport.
Yes, Graham probably should have kept his mouth shut. But I can completely understand his total and utter frustration.
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| Quote ="TheElectricGlidingWarrior"Players get injured in legal challenges. It doesn't become a foul because an injury occurs, it's just unfortunate. '"
I didn't say that players don't get injured in legal challenges. I didn't say a penalty should be given when an injury occurs. In fact I didn't mention the injury at all.
What I said was that players in vulnerable positions should be protected and that defenders have a duty to ensure they don't make dangerous contact with a player in a vulnerable position.
Quote ="TheElectricGlidingWarrior"The law clearly stipulates that Graham shouldn't have been penalised.'"
Actually it does. Or it at least gives the referee the leeway to penalise Graham.
The law you quoted is to do with obstruction. Not dangerous contact.
This one gives the ref all the legitimacy he needs to penalise Graham's unintentional but careless action -
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"I agree with that. Whilst I don't think Graham meant to collide with or hurt the guy, too often we see guys flying into kickers knowing the ball is gone but hoping to shake them up or hurt them (not seriously perhaps but enough to effect their game or at least miss the rest of the particular game in question).
See the charge at Sinfield by Michael Monaghan in the '12 GF that had Sinfield out on the floor. Granted as some of the commentators say, he can't avoid colliding with Sinfield at that speed but the way he dips his head is very unnatural and looks like he was trying to give him a nut on the head.'"
Yep. With the increasing power and pace of players comes additional responsibilities.
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| If we're penalising players for unintentionally injuring a kicker then we should penalise every unintentional injury.
We can't protect one group of players at the expense of every other.
I don't want half-backs entering the game thinking they are entitled to protection other players aren't afforded.
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| Quote ="Mugwump"If we're penalising players for unintentionally injuring a kicker then we should penalise every unintentional injury.
We can't protect one group of players at the expense of every other.
I don't want half-backs entering the game thinking they are entitled to protection other players aren't afforded.'"
What? Like a high tackle?
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| So now we're talking about was it/wasn't it?
Still not a huge amount of condemnation of Graham's outrageous behaviour to the ref. He must have managed to avoid swearing as his teammate got binned for a clear FO to the ref, but he was pretty disrespectful. Still not sure what his point was about the knees in the Luke tackle. Pretty clear kick to the head from Morris and knees from Kasiano. The 8 point try gave that away yet Graham was still raging. He needs to calm it down or he'll turn into the verbal Hock.
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| Quote ="Chris28"So now we're talking about was it/wasn't it?
Still not a huge amount of condemnation of Graham's outrageous behaviour to the ref. He must have managed to avoid swearing as his teammate got binned for a clear FO to the ref, but he was pretty disrespectful. Still not sure what his point was about the knees in the Luke tackle. Pretty clear kick to the head from Morris and knees from Kasiano. The 8 point try gave that away yet Graham was still raging. He needs to calm it down or he'll turn into the verbal Hock.'"
My view is I can understand frustration as plenty of other late/dangerous hits happen that don't get penalised but it's hardly an outrageous decision.
Agree on Graham. For me he should certainly have been sin binned and if he swore at the ref should've been red carded. His team mate that was sin binned should've had a straight red.
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| EVERY chargedown has the potential to have a 'dangerous' outcome, you cannot just interpret a law that doesn't exist and penalise that outcome.
How can a referee know just before impact what the outcome will be or indeed if any impact will happen at all and whilst the burden of responsibility goes to the would be 'tackler' this situation is just ridiculous. If Graham had not outstretched his hands to block and aimed to tackle him around the legs in the act of kicking that isn't foul play.
What if the kicking player moves into the player charging down and gets hurt, by this application of a non existant rule the charger is penalised which is utter, utter garbage.
Someone said earlier it's a "no-no in the NRL", bollox, either it is a law or it isn't. This was not dangerous or reckless, not even close, so the laws if applied correctly do not cover 'accidental' injury in a legitimate (i.e. non reckless/dangerous) tackle or charge down. We had Ganson penalising a KR player for an accidental clash of heads a few years back, he described it as leading with the head despite the player leading with open arms to grab around the player, his decision that day incensed Dobson and was just as crazy as this!
IF it is considered as reckless and/or dangerous then you have to ban charge downs and probably any form of tackle above the chest, ANY tackle on a stationary player (1st, 2nd or third man in it doesn't matter) because there is the potential for injury, oh hang on, players get injuries (& long lasting ones too) from almsot some form of contact, let's just ban contact altogether and play fecking tiddlywinks, this is a decision of the very worst kind.
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| Quote ="Him"What? Like a high tackle?'"
Any injury caused by accidental collision, action ... or fart.
Half backs have coped with players attacking the kick since the beginnings of the sport. If they can't handle what the likes of Peter Sterling, Allan Langer or Geoff Toovey regularly overcame then maybe they should go try another sport.
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| If you charge a kick down and make contact with the standing leg it's a penalty, is it not? Whether it was accidental or not is surely irrelevant? Every instance of foul play could be deemed accidental, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be penalised.
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| I've just re-read the thread, having just watched the game. So it seems there is, to say the least, room for manoeuvre for the refs to call it a penalty. If so, then the kick was taken from the correct place. Graham harangues referees week in, week out. As I think someone mentioned, the Aussie commentators, all of them, are very indulgent of him. Overly so in my view. Haranguing the ref could and should be worthy of a red card.
And, lets face it, if the Dogs lost this game, they really have no-one to blame but themselves. The Rabbitohs were woeful in the first half, but all the Dogs could manage was two very scratchy tries. Really the quality was very poor from both sides, frequently looking embarrassingly inept in front of goal. But then, I've never been a fan of Messrs Reynolds, Reynolds and Hodkinson, Origin or no Origin. The eight point try may have been fortuitous for the Bunnies, but I wouldn't argue with the decision. Don't forget it was the Dogs, who having been handed possession by the Bunnies, promptly gave it straight back, at critical periods in the match.
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