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| It's a great decision for me.
A clear and sustainable pathway for championship clubs up to Super league, more relevance and therefore intensity added to regular season rounds and a real selling point of innovation to market the game on.
But there'll always be people stuck in the past who'd rather see us go to 12 teams with a simple 2 up 2 down P/R which would eventually lead to the bankrupting of many high end championship and low end Super League clubs.
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| Quote ="Th'ump"Reinstating relegation is a ridiculous & backwards step.
We'll soon be back to clubs packing their squads with journeymen (often overseas ones) just because they're experienced, cos the chairmen are terrified of the financial consequences of relegaton. The major plus of having no relegation is that SL clubs have been far more happy to play young players, which is a massive boost for the game in the longer term.
As usual, RL is on a short-termist and totally parochial basis.'"
Well said.
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| Quote ="Fev 1979"For all those super league fans that are going to stay away many championship fans will return.. Look at wakefield attendences when in the then northern ford premiership in 1998 the year they beat fev in the final to get to super league they were similar to revs crowds now.
Best news in rl for years this'"
and what crowds was they before franchising?
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| Quote ="Th'ump"And I'll add that the splitting of leagues mid-season, with some teams retaining their points whist others don't, is just gimmicky, unnecessarily complex, and totally witted.
This could be the end of me following the game. It's just a joke.'"
So what you are saying is if your team was a division lower you would stop supporting them? Top fan then!
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| Quote ="wiganermike"As it says on the press release the exact details will be explained later in the month so finer points will be clearer then.
Teams demoted from championship next year will not have the door slammed and locked behind them as you put it. It was stated early on when the plans for restructure were first mentioned that P&R between the 2nd tier (Championship) and 3rd tier (Championship 1) would continue. So from 2015 there will still be a way for the teams below the top 24 to get into (and leave) the top two leagues. Also there are 23 teams in the Championships (14 and 9) not 28.
It has not yet been confirmed that Toulouse are joining the set up but if they are then 9 teams from the Championships will make the initial top 24. If no Toulouse then 10 will make it. It was also reported at the end of last season that there would be opportunity for one team from Championship 1 to win promotion into the top 24 at the end of 2014 (most likely via a playoff). So we would have a scenario where the top 9 in Championship in 2014 would make the 24 with the 10th placed team in a playoff against the winner of Championship 1 for the final place in the 24. (If Toulouse are coming in then it would be the top 8 making the cut with the 9th placed team in that playoff for the last place). This detail along with whether or not Toulouse are in will be announced with the rest of the full details.
It has not been confirmed how the cut to 12 will occur though it has been assumed that the bottom two in SL will be relegated. That matter needed to be voted upon by the SL clubs and now I would assume this has been done.'"
Thanks for sharing the knowledge. So effectively it's more of a wait and see as it stands rather than a see yer later. For some reason I expected it to be mentioned by the media but I should know better. Where was the commitment to a lower league promotion structure reported?
I meant there were 28 teams in Super League plus Championship, I should learn to proof read more!
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| The whole things a farce. I just don't get the idea of the 3rd tier. Is this right?. The 8 bottom places of the championship playing each other for exactly what?. Being poor?. These clubs wont get many supporters coming in as it is. Its got disaster written all over it.
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| Quote ="dubairl"and what crowds was they before franchising?'"
Where at in particular?
In the championship all clubs were getting better crowds before than they do now..look at keighley they should of gone up they were denied and crowds dwindled..
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"I like the system generally (a top 8 playoff in a league of 12 is stupid) but what happens to the bottom of the current championship 1? thats my main concern'"
All of the current Championship 1 teams and the bottom 4 of the current Championship will be in a new league in 2015. Say Doncaster, N Wales, Rochdale and Workington finish in the bottom 4; seriously though are those teams going to make it to the top 8 of S League any time soon? No. But if it becomes clear that one of them has a better structure/development etc. than a Championship team then they should then replace them, so I would like to see a licensing system between the future Championship and this new league.
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| Quote ="Fev 1979"Where at in particular?
In the championship all clubs were getting better crowds before than they do now..look at keighley they should of gone up they were denied and crowds dwindled..'"
just do the top 4 from last season as they are more than likely the ones who may replace a super league team.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Yes, so finishing 9th is absolutely pointless. There is literally no difference to finishing 9th as opposed to finishing 12th. There is no difference between scoring 20points and finishing 9th missing out on the play-offs on points difference, than scoring 0 points and finishing 12th.
And if a team finishing 9th should be comfortably good enough to stay in SL anyway, why are they playing in this 7 game play-off?
Win 4 of 7 of the 2nd part of the season absolutely nothing that happened in the previous 22 rounds matters.'"
This made me laugh thanks Smokey, i don't think anyone in any league in any sport has ever said what's the point in finishing 9th before.
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| So 2.4 million freed up. How is that going to be split? Someone mentioned help from the RFL for relegated clubs. Why? They should put clauses in contracts "in the event of relegation".
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| Does anyone have a link to the proposal pdf? I'd like to read the proposal for the salary cap system again but I can't think where to find it.
Thanks in advance.
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| Surely the point of finishing 9th is that you nearly finished 8th and made the play-offs but now you have to get your head together to face some Championship upstart that wants to rub salt in the wound. It's called entertainment.
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| Let's say that we get to round 18 or 19 of the initial 23 rounds, and the teams in 10th to 12th know that it is impossible to make the top 8 with only 4 or 5 rounds remaining due to league points difference.
They then decide that - because the remaining 4 or 5 fixtures are completely pointless - they will play a side full of academy players until the 7 game tournament begins. Their first team squad are over any injuries and fresh for the fight to stay in SL. The teams that played their academy side get an easy win, and because of the fixture patterns this determines who finishes top of the league, or even who finishes in 8th or 9th place.
The same could happen with the top 4 in the championship: once they are statistically safe in the top 4 the remaining fixtures become irrelevant.
The only way around this that I can think of is to somehow reward the final standings - perhaps your league position could determine how many of the playoff games you play at home/away.
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| Quote ="dubairl"just do the top 4 from last season as they are more than likely the ones who may replace a super league team.'"
I remember fax averaging over 4500 and Leigh regularly got that fev could get 3500 average in the old first division but been as high as 7000 for big teams visits.
Championship clubs need this we have had nothing to play for for years.
Ps those attendances are from my memory not 100% accurate
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| Quote ="Nothus"Let's say that we get to round 18 or 19 of the initial 23 rounds, and the teams in 10th to 12th know that it is impossible to make the top 8 with only 4 or 5 rounds remaining due to league points difference.
They then decide that - because the remaining 4 or 5 fixtures are completely pointless - they will play a side full of academy players until the 7 game tournament begins. Their first team squad are over any injuries and fresh for the fight to stay in SL. The teams that played their academy side get an easy win, and because of the fixture patterns this determines who finishes top of the league, or even who finishes in 8th or 9th place.
The same could happen with the top 4 in the championship: once they are statistically safe in the top 4 the remaining fixtures become irrelevant.
The only way around this that I can think of is to somehow reward the final standings - perhaps your league position could determine how many of the playoff games you play at home/away.'"
You mean like many games in SL?
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| Quote ="obeone"You mean like many games in SL?'"
What's the point in a new system if we'll be stuck with the same problems?
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| Quote ="Viva La Vikings!!"Terrible decision. especially for a Widnes fan, Wakefield, Castleford etc. We are never going to advance. If we survive the cut this year I'm definitely not getting a season ticket next year knowing we will odds on be playing Leigh , Sheffield and Fev for the latter stages. Ridiculous'"
Wow, what a fan! Though you were suppose to support your team through thick n thin??
You mention playing Leigh, Sheff and Fev, is this because these teams will probably give you a game and have a chance of beating you? You can add Fax to that list too!
Seems the only people that are not in favour of this change are the teams that have been going through the motions in super league and now the safety net has gone there starting to panic. I reckon super league will be more competitive this year because the players know there full time jobs are on the line.
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| Quote ="Nothus"Let's say that we get to round 18 or 19 of the initial 23 rounds, and the teams in 10th to 12th know that it is impossible to make the top 8 with only 4 or 5 rounds remaining due to league points difference.
They then decide that - because the remaining 4 or 5 fixtures are completely pointless - they will play a side full of academy players until the 7 game tournament begins. Their first team squad are over any injuries and fresh for the fight to stay in SL. The teams that played their academy side get an easy win, and because of the fixture patterns this determines who finishes top of the league, or even who finishes in 8th or 9th place.
The same could happen with the top 4 in the championship: once they are statistically safe in the top 4 the remaining fixtures become irrelevant.
The only way around this that I can think of is to somehow reward the final standings - perhaps your league position could determine how many of the playoff games you play at home/away.'"
It's more likely that only the team in 12th will know it's fate soon enough to think about resting players. The team finishing 9th least likely. Result being the lower placed team has a slight advantage going into the playoffs. Same as do the winners of the championship who'll be sooner certain of their fate than the team in 4th. This is however taking navel gazing to the extreme.
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| Quote ="Fev 1979"I remember fax averaging over 4500 and Leigh regularly got that fev could get 3500 average in the old first division but been as high as 7000 for big teams visits.
Championship clubs need this we have had nothing to play for for years.
Ps those attendances are from my memory not 100% accurate'"
So how are them attendances going to improve super league or even make your club financially stable? So its great for those fans who have stuck with there club even when no signs of playing super league where apparent but how is it going to benefit rugby league in this country? another thing super league has absolutely no chance of a salary cap raise because those same clubs will start moaning that its causing an unfair competition.
Its rather short sighted and one those things that the RFL give them selves a pat on the back for, Innovative.
Its obvious from koukash that the chairman are going to grind there teeth and bare with it but he's obviously not happy at it either.
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Thanks!
(If you'd already posted it and I missed it, sincere apologies!)
EDIT: Ah, Page 5, sorry!
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Thanks!
(If you'd already posted it and I missed it, sincere apologies!)
EDIT: Ah, Page 5, sorry!
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| Quote ="dubairl"So how are them attendances going to improve super league or even make your club financially stable? So its great for those fans who have stuck with there club even when no signs of playing super league where apparent but how is it going to benefit rugby league in this country? another thing super league has absolutely no chance of a salary cap raise because those same clubs will start moaning that its causing an unfair competition.
Its rather short sighted and one those things that the RFL give them selves a pat on the back for, Innovative.
Its obvious from koukash that the chairman are going to grind there teeth and bare with it but he's obviously not happy at it either.'"
Well Salford have managed london have also but had a bit of help.
It's not just the size of the crowd that generates income if the club own it's ground like fev do all food sales bar sales etc go to the club not the stadium owners I.e the council...
Look at football every league has it's big clubs and little clubs why can't rl be the same? it's played on grass not in a boardroom.
Just my opinion on it for what it counts
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| Quote ="Fev 1979"Well Salford have managed london have also but had a bit of help.
It's not just the size of the crowd that generates income if the club own it's ground like fev do all food sales bar sales etc go to the club not the stadium owners I.e the council...
Look at football every league has it's big clubs and little clubs why can't rl be the same? it's played on grass not in a boardroom.
Just my opinion on it for what it counts'"
yes i agree that why i think majority people want to see super league go to 12 because they have just managed somehow to stay solvent but performance wise they are miles off. Yeah i understand different clubs have different revenue streams but 4,000 people are not going to create enough money for a club to spend up to 2,000,000 in players salary alone never mind match day costs, up keep of facilities, upgrading of facilities and back room staff.
I would have no problem with clubs being happy with just being in super league if there presences didn't effect other clubs but it does, salary cap being one of the main ones and blow out scores another. And the RFL skimping money on other sectors just to keep those clubs alive.
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