Certainly, the next round should be Perth and Central Coast. Bringing the Bears back into the competition will bring fans from Mosman and Willoughby north.

Perth is a no brainer to extend the TV profile and we have the runs on the board from the late 1980s/1990s prior to the SLW. And again with the executed Reds.

Are there enough quality players to maintain the high intensity of the NRL with so many teams?

3 years ago, but knowing the luvvly NRL, it will take them 10 years minimum.

WOAH WOAH WOAH Dally.

You spent AGES telling JB that Perth had absolutely no chance!
What changed your tune...

Ok....I have only been in Wellington for 12 months, but after watching the Local comp, the national Comp and wall to wall NRL/Toyota cup on SKY, I would offer this as an explanation as to why NZRL will concentrate on getting its own house in order before pressing for another NRL team. I may be well of the mark with cetain assumptions, but it is mainly based on published facts:
NZRL has been in disarray for many years, with national comps failing and regions working to their own agendas. It was one of the reasons that Bluey left after he had won the RLWC........ In July 2009 Jim Doyle was appointed CEO. His first task was to investigate and assess the organisation from top to bottom and in September 2009 he published his framework document for the future of the game in NZ. This can be read [url=http://www.nzrl.co.nz/pdf/more-than-just-a-game.pdfHERE[/url (warning. 9 meg)
The new 7 Regions are all now in place with only one area currently causing problems and new competitions successfully launched at senior and under age levels in 2010. The next steps will be to ensure that these comps continue to run well and the 7 regions all ensure they deliver the same basic message in promoting the game. It will take another 3 years minimum before a decision on the success "to date' can really be made. At this stage, I believe that if it has worked, the standard of teams will have improved to such a level that some NRL fringe players may be enticed back to NZ.

One of the issues faced by NZRL is a social one. When I first came to New Zealand as a tourist, I asked about League. The person I asked informed me that the League team in his town, Wanganui, had been moved 15 miles away due to a shooting incident. This answer was repeated to me on a number of occassions and after I went to the local library I disovered that a localised fued betwen Black Power and the Mob had ended with the death of a child in a drive by shooting......and because people involved were players on the team, a RL connection had been made....
When I started work here, I asked about Wainuiomata RL and was told not to park my car near the ground as there was "always" trouble after games........the same when I asked if Petone Panthers were a better bet to watch games.

The fact is that 90% of the players in the national and wellington comps (can't comment on other areas) are of pacific or Maori heritage and the culture of "big hits' sometimes enables people to settle scores on the field. I am not sure, but I believe that this "aggression", together with unhelpful journalism such as highlighted above is key in the current situation regarding getting fans to games.

This is one of the key areas that Jim Doyle and his team will be addressing over the next 3 years....the perception that League is a game played by thugs, associated with gangs and settling of scores.

My own experiences of League in the region this year have been nothing other than great. Great people running the game, great people running the clubs and friendly fans.......happy to have a dig about my beloved Quins RL being crap.....

.

I would love to see a franchise in Wellington......but, as I have pointed out in other threads, sports fans in the region are fickle....and Union, soccer, netball, basketball are all suffering from "fanapathy" (copywrite pending

) and I believe that if a Wellington Orcas side were to become an NRL Franchise, then it would have to be with a backer prepared to underwrite the club for 5 or more years..and with an infastructure across all 7 regions that would support it and provide a good breeding ground for the players of the future.

So, that's how the land lies here at the moment. 21,000 went to watch the Kiwis beat England, showing that there are fans in the region, but there are 35,000 fans for the AB's when they play here and only 14,000 for the local premium Union team.....5,000 for the coccer team yet 35,000 for the All Whites.....Wellington Fans need to be courted to folloing league and I believe that 3 Warriors games a year need to played here to really gauge interest........

As I said, I may be wrong, but these are my thoughts on the matter.

or split them into two seperate divisions and introduce promotion an relegation, who knows, we may follow suit........................

Gutterfax is right on the money with much of what he has said.
I have lived in Wellington for most of my 37 years and the comments he has made regarding watching local rugby league and the violent behavior assosiated have been right on the mark in the past.
I live in Upper Hutt, home to the mighty Upper Hutt Tigers. At their home games the Mongrel Mob can be seen perched on the bank on one side of the field in a menacing way which will put off most casual fans from attending. I have worked with quite a few Tiger's players and they have all been great blokes and not gang affiliated but there obviously is another contingent that are. There were always stories in my youth of shootings and brawls involving spectators whenever the supremacy of the Wainui Lions was challenged. I'm not saying it was solely Wainui but being Upper Hutt's main rival for top spot (along with Randwick) in those days they were the stories you heard about.

However, I believe the winds of change are happening.
Rugby League is now in our schools, in my day there was no school rugby league teams, it was rugby or nothing and if you played club league on the weekends your first XV coach would probably drop you. Upper Hutt College just completing a 3rd unbeaten season in the Stephen Kearney cup and the aussie talent scouts are taking notice. The kids know due to Toyota Cup coverage and the many kiwis plying their trade there that there are career opportunities in league that are reachable to them. They also are being taught and see from the TV coverage that they can't do drugs and expect to be picked up by the scouts. This will no doubt flow through to the senior ranks with more dedicated players coming through rather than gang related thugs just trying to show how tough they are. But it will take years.

As for crowds well it's hard to say. Wellington has less than half the population of Auckland and while per capita certainly supports it's sporting teams better there is only so much money people have to spend. Christchurch has the same issue but without the competition of a semi-pro soccer team.

NZ rugby league is moving forward and certainly becoming more main stream, but there is a long way to go. I would love to see a team based in Wellington and think it would be great for the fans and the national side, but I suspect the money side of things would not stack up and at the end of the day it will always come back to that.

As I posted earlier , it is slightly different over there , it can get interesting to say the least , so the ' Mongrel Mob ' are still around , they were there when I attended Heretaunga college back in 75

Some on here will shoot you for that...but thanks anyway.

Bloody cockneys , what do they know about RL ?

How to score 4 tries in an international

This was from 18 months ago but little since and with bids expected to be called for around March time it is doubtful one will come from Wellington. www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/232 ... -inclusion Quote Wellington is once again positioning itself to be home to a professional rugby league team and bid head Jason Hemson is adamant the city has a genuine shot of breaking into the NRL. While Wellington appears to be starting its run from behind, Hemson, Wellington Rugby League's ambitious general manager, said he'd had encouraging discussions with the NRL, Wellington City Council and Westpac Stadium over the last year. Hemson said rather than trying to fight with the AFL in Perth or Adelaide, the NRL wanted to shore up its strongholds of Australia's east coast and New Zealand. "We believe that for the long-term future of rugby league here there needs to be at least one other team out of New Zealand and we're working away on it at the moment. "We've been keeping it low key because we want to get all our things lined up before we go public with it. "There's been good support from Wellington City Council to work with us and the [Westpac Stadium are obviously keen for it to happen as well."'" from sept 2010 www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 15hdm.html Quote Meanwhile, Wellington's NRL aspirations are not dead and the newest bidder from the capital city says they would be ready to apply tomorrow if the NRL called for fresh franchise bids. The last bid to bring NRL to the city was fronted by former NZRL chairman Andrew Chalmers, with an anonymous, Belgium-based millionaire fronting the money, but Chalmers has since shelved those plans. He isn't involved in a fresh consortium led by Wellington RL general manager Jason Hemson, who says that since initially flagging his interest to NRL chief operating officer Graham Annesley a year ago, he has kept working quietly on the bid. It's widely expected the NRL will be open to new franchise bids to join the competition for 2013 when new television rights are negotiated, but while the Central Coast and Central Queensland bids have been vocal and interest from Adelaide and Perth also given extensive airtime, Wellington has barely been mentioned since Chalmers quit the sport. Hemson says 2013 may be too soon and the next round of expansions may be a more realistic target for Wellington, but he insists the city will one day secure NRL football and are as well placed as any bid despite the lack of financial backers.'"

This was from 18 months ago but little since and with bids expected to be called for around March time it is doubtful one will come from Wellington. www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/232 ... -inclusion Quote Wellington is once again positioning itself to be home to a professional rugby league team and bid head Jason Hemson is adamant the city has a genuine shot of breaking into the NRL. While Wellington appears to be starting its run from behind, Hemson, Wellington Rugby League's ambitious general manager, said he'd had encouraging discussions with the NRL, Wellington City Council and Westpac Stadium over the last year. Hemson said rather than trying to fight with the AFL in Perth or Adelaide, the NRL wanted to shore up its strongholds of Australia's east coast and New Zealand. "We believe that for the long-term future of rugby league here there needs to be at least one other team out of New Zealand and we're working away on it at the moment. "We've been keeping it low key because we want to get all our things lined up before we go public with it. "There's been good support from Wellington City Council to work with us and the [Westpac Stadium are obviously keen for it to happen as well."'" from sept 2010 www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 15hdm.html Quote Meanwhile, Wellington's NRL aspirations are not dead and the newest bidder from the capital city says they would be ready to apply tomorrow if the NRL called for fresh franchise bids. The last bid to bring NRL to the city was fronted by former NZRL chairman Andrew Chalmers, with an anonymous, Belgium-based millionaire fronting the money, but Chalmers has since shelved those plans. He isn't involved in a fresh consortium led by Wellington RL general manager Jason Hemson, who says that since initially flagging his interest to NRL chief operating officer Graham Annesley a year ago, he has kept working quietly on the bid. It's widely expected the NRL will be open to new franchise bids to join the competition for 2013 when new television rights are negotiated, but while the Central Coast and Central Queensland bids have been vocal and interest from Adelaide and Perth also given extensive airtime, Wellington has barely been mentioned since Chalmers quit the sport. Hemson says 2013 may be too soon and the next round of expansions may be a more realistic target for Wellington, but he insists the city will one day secure NRL football and are as well placed as any bid despite the lack of financial backers.'"

[iHemson said rather than trying to fight with the AFL in Perth or Adelaide, the NRL wanted to shore up its strongholds of Australia's east coast and New Zealand. [/i

Bloody flat cappers.

there was an article in april this year, which i posted a summary of on here saying perth would get a team.

its common knowledge the nrl will be expanding to central coast and perth in 12 months

yes.

well get some back from SL, with the higher salary cap well get many back from rugby union, well sign 20 union players from the S14 including all blacks and wallabies and probably 20 english players as well.

we need around 50 more players so its not a lot.

the correct term is cork cappers/

Good one dally.

After NZ won the world cup, all we heard is how league is going to overtake union there. Nothing happened. Now they have won the tri nations we are hearing the same thing again. Id love it to happen, but it just wont.

For me, Central Coast, Perth and PNG are much more deserving of a franchise than a second NZ team

League will never overtake union in NZ, the gap is just too large. Union and the All Blacks is ingrained in NZ heritage (we are a young country with very little heritage lol).
But the profile of league has certainly lifted since winning the world cup. While union has probably gone down hill a little with the game having a bad couple of years as a specticle, although rule changes have certainly made it more fun to watch this year.

The fact that league is now played in our schools I think is a huge step forward and I honestly believe the Toyota Cup coverage has played a big part in young guys seeing it as a real career option. They are seeing seniors from previous years running round for Melbourne, Newcastle etc in the Under 20's level and even from my home town point of view big Sika Manu for the Storm.

Don't believe the hype some people drivel, but believe that it is on the way up in NZ. A winning Warriors side would be the next major hurdle to really give the game some impetus. And i'm not talking a few games, but a premiership or two and a Broncos type reputation. With all the local talent coming through it could be possible in years to come, but we have to look locally as it's very hard to get top quality players to cross the ditch for a decent price. If we could just discover a local star halfback or 2 and tie him into the Warriors it would be achievable. We have talented forwards and outside backs all over the place, just need some smart talented little men to steer them around.

Gotta agree with you there K Kev. A winning Warriors side would be the biggest impetus for the growth of RL here. Everyone's already forgotten about the Tri-nations over here. The Warriors play week in week out.

Also, to an earlier poster, I reckon 50 extra players in the nrl in one season does pose a risk of diluting and reducing the standard.

back in 2002 when the warriors were making their grand final surge their TV ratings were on par with the best All blacks test matches and they often led the sports news over all blacks tests results.

a strong club competition ie the nrl will take RL to dominance in nz

kiwis will always love their all blacks but with more nrl teams theyll prefer the nrl clubs to S15 clubs whose crowds are falling

and the kiwis doing well in int. rl will only help

beating the wallabies doesnt mean much, its the roos which have all the best players

Quote ="dally messenger"back in 2002 when the warriors were making their grand final surge their TV ratings were on par with the best All blacks test matches and they often led the sports news over all blacks tests results.'" Really......I will take your word for that. Where in NZ were you living at the time? Which paper did you read on a regular basis while you were here? The Dom Post? The Hearald? was www.stuff.co.nz your home page. Quote ="dally messenger"a strong club competition ie the nrl will take RL to dominance in nz'" as has been said by people who live here and all of them for a lot longer than me, you are talking out of your poop pipe when you say this...... Quote ="dally messenger"kiwis will always love their all blacks '" ...not according to the first 2 bits of your post above they don't/won't.... Quote ="dally messenger"but with more nrl teams theyll prefer the nrl clubs to S15 clubs '" ...is this fact or another opinion? Just because you say it, it doesn't make it true Quote ="dally messenger"whose crowds are falling'" correct.....but all sports crowds are falling in NZ......even the Warriors. This is more a social/economic issue......but if it helps you delude yourself, carry on! Quote ="dally messenger"and the kiwis doing well in int. rl will only help '" ...as has been said by other Kiwis on here...it is already forgotten...the papers are all about the Northern Hemisphere tour of thr AB's now.....the Breakers, the trouble at the wendyballers etc.....no mention of League at all. You are passionate about your League Dally, of that there is no doubt, but you have to learn, just because YOU think it should happen...doesn't mean it actually should or ever will. As for AB's switching to the NRL.........it remains to be seen. The Central Contracts here generally cover a minimum 5 year period......so if a 21 yr old AB catches an NRL clubs eye, they may well have to pay for the remaining 3 or 4 yrs of a contact.......and giving money to the NZRU would only make your head explode The AB's are ingrained in NZ culture....kids grow up wanting to be the next Dan Carter....Richie....or Fitz. Very few want to be the next Benji....and that is a shame....but also a Fact.

Quote ="dally messenger"back in 2002 when the warriors were making their grand final surge their TV ratings were on par with the best All blacks test matches and they often led the sports news over all blacks tests results.'" Really......I will take your word for that. Where in NZ were you living at the time? Which paper did you read on a regular basis while you were here? The Dom Post? The Hearald? was www.stuff.co.nz your home page. Quote ="dally messenger"a strong club competition ie the nrl will take RL to dominance in nz'" as has been said by people who live here and all of them for a lot longer than me, you are talking out of your poop pipe when you say this...... Quote ="dally messenger"kiwis will always love their all blacks '" ...not according to the first 2 bits of your post above they don't/won't.... Quote ="dally messenger"but with more nrl teams theyll prefer the nrl clubs to S15 clubs '" ...is this fact or another opinion? Just because you say it, it doesn't make it true Quote ="dally messenger"whose crowds are falling'" correct.....but all sports crowds are falling in NZ......even the Warriors. This is more a social/economic issue......but if it helps you delude yourself, carry on! Quote ="dally messenger"and the kiwis doing well in int. rl will only help '" ...as has been said by other Kiwis on here...it is already forgotten...the papers are all about the Northern Hemisphere tour of thr AB's now.....the Breakers, the trouble at the wendyballers etc.....no mention of League at all. You are passionate about your League Dally, of that there is no doubt, but you have to learn, just because YOU think it should happen...doesn't mean it actually should or ever will. As for AB's switching to the NRL.........it remains to be seen. The Central Contracts here generally cover a minimum 5 year period......so if a 21 yr old AB catches an NRL clubs eye, they may well have to pay for the remaining 3 or 4 yrs of a contact.......and giving money to the NZRU would only make your head explode The AB's are ingrained in NZ culture....kids grow up wanting to be the next Dan Carter....Richie....or Fitz. Very few want to be the next Benji....and that is a shame....but also a Fact.

gutterfax has beaten me to most of the points you mention but you are simply wrong with the comment above. There was a major inquisition after the All Blacks loss in Hong Kong to the Wallabies that is still going on. The poor kid, Donald, who failed to kick the ball into touch in the last minute can thank his lucky stars that the team were heading for the UK after the match.

It is a dream of all Kiwi kids to be an All Black when they are older.

Gotta give it to you though - you are definitely a glass half full person.

Just for a matter of interest, when, where and for how long did you live in New Zealand?

the figures speak for themselves.

when the warriors made their grand final run they got the same tv ratings as all blacks test matches

all of nz was talking about league first, union second

also S14 crowds are falling for most nz clubs.

the nail in the coffin will be the rise in the nrl salary cap to $6.5 - $7 million, a level which NZ S14 clubs cant compete with

this will see a steady stream of players from union to league.

will the nz public continue watching S14 clubs without any good players?