We aren't looking far off. Next year Joe Burgess will be ready and should come in onto the left wing partnering Sarginson. Push Hall to right wing with the fit again Jack Reed at Right centre. Then we just need to find another half back or push S Tomkins upto 6/7.

Hardaker/Lomax/Ratchford
J Burgess
Sarginson
Reed
Hall
S.Tomkins
Widdop
G Burgess
Roby
J Graham
J.Tomkins (Should be better after a full preseason and year back in League)
Farrell
O'Loughlin

Clarke
Hill
T.Burgess/Walmsley/Amor
???

The match is being screened again IN FULL on the BBC RED butron RIGHT NOW if you missed it earlier.

I think Widdop's performances have shown that just because you play in the NRL doesn't mean you're actually that great, and I think the same would be said of Reed if he was in the side. If someone like Sinfield or Chase had have put in the same level of performance Widdop has in this tournament they'd be getting serious criticism for it.

Having said that I don't think England's main problems are with personnel, but rather their defensive line speed and structure. Two of NZ's trys could have been stopped had the defence moved forward and closed down the ball carrier instead of sliding back towards their own line.

Millward and Bishop were the GB half-backs for the last time in the 1968 World Cup - over 46 years ago - and yet you can't remember Paul Charlton from the tournament that we won 4 years later



Not for the first time with you, I smell utter Bulls-hit.

I thought the Kiwis handled the big match pressure better than England and that in my opinion is testament to the intensity of the games they get to play in the NRL. It also highlights the benefit of having an International fixture during the regular season.
A highly enjoyable match and well played both sides.
Credit is also due to the referee who gave both sides the opportunity to show what a great spectacle International Rugby is.
I'm looking forward to the fixtures with New Zealand next year and very much hope that Wembley gets booked for the second test.

Agreed about the ref. Although I could be wrong but wasn't one of the NZ chasers within the 10 meters for their first try?

Overall it was a far faster and more entertaining game than last week. Fans here criticise our refs but I think they're far better than the NRL's

Yes one of the nZ chasers was within the 10 m for their try. I saw it but thought it would be pretty harsh to have cancelled it - but then Farrell was penalised for exactly the same thing.

Yet again we had a number of chances to win this. I can't believe how close we get and still can't finish if off.

I think it's pretty pathetic blaming individuals after a game like that. You need to take a long look at yourselves and look atbthe effort and application the boys put into that game. We played some great rugby.

Our line speed, untimely errors and a few soft pens lost the game today, not individuals.

The first thing Whitehead did was give away a silly penalty... and I believe he's an individual.

So the individuals who gave away the "soft penalties" shouldn't be criticised?

If it makes you feel better - fill your boots

I meant the decisions on ball stripping and offside could have gone the other way just as easily.

Its easy to criticise and to be negative but in the cold light of day, that was an excellent game of Rugby.
I don't know how you develop an international team that only plays THREE games a year!!

Interesting how I feel different this week compared to last. Yes we could have won, but I am more sanguine about it. Last week, still, really rankles and seeing cheats benefit sticks in my throat. This week we had the chances to win comfortably but did not take them, or we could have also been beaten by few more as well, that is sport. Some will say that there were a few decisions that went astray, but again, the ref cannot get everything right all the time and it is not like he could see footage of one thing and then, disgracefully, decide another. We lost honestly. I am not a great one for the plucky loser bit, I want to see Australian bones ground beneath our heels in the sporting arena, but today I was proud of the team.

It's been a long time since I've seen us play as well as we have done down under. Usually, as soon as we go behind we fold. That hasn't been the case this time and we've actually played good RL. I can't see any other English coaches getting performances as good out of their players.

Completely agree. We've competed, looked the better team for large parts of the games we've played in and could have won either game with the last touch of the ball.

How many times have we done that away from home in games that really mattered.

Its not about me feeling better. This is a forum for discussion, but obviously not in your case.

I think Shaun Wane could and would, I also think he would man manage better than McNamara.

Sorry. What part of ''fill your boots' don't you understand?

Go ahead, carry on, more of the same, etc. if it makes you happy no one is stopping you.

Grow up.

I would like to second that excellent summary.
Firstly: McNamara, he has got a better method of on field play going, whether this has come about from spending this last season in the NRL, who knows, I tend to believe it has.

No one has been more critical of him, than I have, but being honest there is something there in his team that has not been apparent for some time past.
I still find his substituting ideas a little bewildering, but that apart the team has improved out of all recognition from the recent past.
Todays game was possibly the most exciting test I have seen in at least 50 years, even Melbourne.
I do not think that any of the English lads had a poor game today, they all strove to give of their best and critics of certain individuals need to watch again before casting their dispersions.

We lost today because we were beaten by the better of two excellent Rugby League teams, there isn't any need for calling and moaning, that game was excellent and but for two narrow goal kick misses we would still have won, if that signifies, poor, bad or terrible then I do need to go to specsavers, as I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of that match and everything about it barring the final score.

Apart from losing, I thought we were very good.
Some of the attacking speed particularly down the right flank was very impressive.
We are not far off and considering we were playing away to the top sides and losing by an average of just three points must be consolation.
We need nippier more adventurous half backs that's the difference.
They should be proud, there was nothing left in the locker room, they gave their all.
Would have liked to see Wigan's Burgess given a go.

At the end of the day, we could have won the lot ... but in keeping with tradition we didn't, but yet we had the players.
Winners win, losers lose....

Time for Wane, he is already proficient in the dark side of the game played down under....lol

Poor display from J Tomkins who was completely outplayed by Taumololo who I know was at loose forward but he lined up opposing JT and stepped past him a number of times.

Kallum Watkins should spend the next 4 years in international wilderness if his displays reap the same reward as Ryan Atkins.

Matty Smith, if his kicking game is off, offers very little in terms of attack. He moves the ball well but much like Sinfield he carries no threat to the line himself, that allows defenders to virtually ignore him and adds pressure to his ball carriers.

why?

Tomkins was better in this game. Moving forward I think he'll be a very good asset to England. This tournament was too soon for him but he's got the physical presence you need at this level in the back row that Ferres, and Farrell lack.

Both centres were good today and it looks like we have 2 centres that can play at this level for the next decade.

Regarding the halves you can only pick what's available, and we're not spoilt for choice in this position. I really hope that Tomkins moves to 6 for the Warriors because we need more spark in midfield, and we have other options in Hardaker, Lomax and Shaul whom could all develop into world class FBs (I think Hardaker and Lomax already are).

His displays have been lacklustre and that's being kind, defensively he's been very poor and has offered very little going forward not even in terms of work rate.

If I were dispensing one of the three centres who've played, based purely on these three performances, it would be Watkins without a doubt.

It's all the more disappointing because we know he's better than what he's shown, the agility and explosive running we are accustomed to getting from him haven't even been hinted at in these three matches.