The difficulty for Leeds fans now might not so much be convincing others that you'll be strong, more that it shouldn't just be taken for granted and is worthy of excitement and interest. Like Wigan in the late 1980s and early 1990s - a great team whose fantastic achievements started to feel routine after a while. In football too, with Liverpool when I was a kid and then Ferguson's Manchester United. The level of success they had weirdly diminished its impact. In the longer term, it starts to look remarkable again, but that requires a period of being a bit rubbish.
So, yeah, to have been truly great Leeds need to start losing more frequently. Unfortunately for Leeds fans, I see no prospect of that in 2016, dooming you to another season of the same old stuff, meandering to a familiar conclusion at Old Trafford.

Saints might stand a chance of top four place if they ignore Cunningham's tactics of three drives and a rubbish kick.

Think we might find a big improvement in 4 drives then a moderate kick. Hopefully Cunningham will have some game plans this season.

Widnes - We've already been written-off by most as having no-chance of even making the top 8.
We've strengthened the back-line and the second row, still a bit light at prop and the overall squad is a bit small for my liking.
But if we don't have the injuries we had last season and can keep our play makers on the pitch for the majority of the season then we may surprise a few and could finish anywhere up to 6th.

You definitely won't finish in the top 8 never mind finishing as high as 6th
See you in the middle 8's

Wigan

We're finally going in to a season as strong if not stronger then the previous season. We've lost Burgess who we'd like in the squad in an ideal world but will hopefully have a fully fit and motivated Josh Charnley to take his place. When at his best he's superb as a try scoring record of approx 174 try's in 172 games tells you. Other then Burgess we've only lost squad players.

We've got Sam Tomkins back! People talk about his record in Australia as though he failed. He had one very good year and one year with a knee injury that has been mis-diagnosed. He'll be a different player to the one which left but no less effective in overall results imo and we'll have one of the very best players in the league at the back for us.

The main plus for us though imo is that we're a year older. We've lost two finals on the trot but we've been in them (plus the one we won) and young lads have gained huge experience in big games. We've also got lads like Bateman and Williams who've gained international experience. The squads average age is very young with Joel Tomkins at 28 the second oldest but in terms of big game experience we're getting it all the time.

We'll go close again.

I'll let Saddened talk you through our chances of success

St Helens:

Only saving grace is that every other team looks weaker in my opinion with the exception of Wigan if Tomkins can hit the floor running once he is fit. Our pack is the best in the league by a long way now that JP and Captain Charisma have retired but when you have 2 halfbacks who are utterly clueless this counts for nothing. I guess it all depends on how Laurel & Hardy get on this year

Regards

King James

Wakefield:

After last year, I'm just hoping that we'll be competitive every week. Signs are promising against a strong Leeds squad but a very long way to go.

P.S

I'm expecting one of the big four to do a Chelsea.

It amazes me that SOME Saints fans still think their pack is miles better than the rest of the league. Fair enough with the idea it's the best but IF it is, it isn't by much and certainly not anywhere near as much over the other teams as they like to think.

I'd add to that what struck me watching the Season Review on Wigan TV: there isn't a better finisher in SL than Dom Manfredi. And he and Charnley will surely vastly benefit from Sam Tomkins' return.

Thats the beauty of opinions. Everyones is different. Would I swap Saints pack with anyone elses. Lol no chance. Would I swap our half backs and backs? In a heart beat. if it makes you feel any better and satisfies your bruised ego, I would love to swap Saints backs with those of Leeds. Feel better now?

Kind Regards

King James

Like you said everyone has an opinion, you shouldn't be so sensitive and upset when someone has a differing view on the 'All Mighty Saints Pack'. Will you wipe away those tears if I say they're the best thing since sliced bread and other packs aren't worthy of sharing the field with them?

loads better than say the like of Ellis, Minichello, Pritchard, Watts, Taylor, Manu and Houghton?

Average age of 29

i said on the leeds board not so long ago, Brian McDermott has achieved something amazing last year. Not only in winning the treble, but winning the treble when Sinfield wasnt our main half and Peacock wasnt our most important forward.

The side that won in 2012 was incredibly reliant on Peacock and Sinfield, We had a make shift back line with a fringe player like bjb and Ablett filling in at centre, Hardaker was just coming through and started the year 2nd to an ageing brent webb, the pack was filled with fodder like Bailey, Kirke, Griffin, McShane, Hauraki, Moore, and the likes of Stevie Ward and Singleton were getting their first tastes.

Peacock and Sinfield were amazing that year, and dragged us to a title and had we lost them then, we would see the massive drop off people expect of us next year. Take Sinfield and Peacock out of our 2012/2013 squad and not making the 8 would be a serious possibility.

But 2015 was different, McGuire was our dominant half all year whether playing with Sinfield or Sutcliffe. Cuthbertsons addition completely changed the way we played and he became our most important forward, getting us so much front foot ball some Leeds fans were mistaking Paul Aiton for the second coming of Benny Elias. We have the best back line in Super league in my opinion, I wouldnt swap Watkins, Hardaker, or Hall for any centre, fullback on winger in the league, and the improvement you would get from swapping Moon or Briscoe for say, McGilvery would be negligible. McGuire is having something of an indian summer and at 33 has swapped from a speedy try scoring stand off to one of the most intelligent and creative scrum halves in SL, Sutcliffe is an outstanding prospect who up to the middle of the year was keeping Sinfield out on merit.

The pack is interesting because whilst Peacock (and kylie) would be a huge loss to any side, we are far more balanced. We are no longer a front row of a super human JP, 15 mins from Kylie and a succession of warm bodies doing a job. Cuthbertson fits perfectly in at Leeds, Galloway is a proven talent, Singleton has really grown in to his role, Garbutt gobbled up metres last year, and Mullally is a decent young prop who can contribute.

Add to that the continued development of Stevie Ward who was in my opinion, far and away our best back rower last year and had it not been for his injury should have played for England, some bit part players who would probably be first teamers at a lot of other clubs like Keinhorst and Walters, and prospects with a bit more experience like Handley, Golding and Lilley as well as a couple of players im really excited to see get a few SL minutes this year in Baldwinson who excelled at Fev last year and maybe some for Cam Smith who is a huge prospect.

That doesn't make it not a good pack though, and Ellis is the only one who's injury record gives any cause for concern.

I don't see it being much of an issue tbh. Certainly not this season, but we will have to start doing a bit of future planning. Taylor and Watts can hopefully be our front row for years, along with Houghton, Manu is also the right side of 30. Then you've got Abdull who wasn't mentioned in that post. Green and Bowden are still young (both need to really kick on and prove they are more than just average squad players though), Hadley and Thompson are well established now. Then you've got a bunch of guys who came in and impressed at the back end of last year. Turgut, Matongo, Downs, Fash. There's plenty in the pack to build around.

Hull FC's problems have not been about squad quality for years now as they have always had a very talented squad "ON PAPER" each season
IMO the club is heading in the right direction finally in creating a better culture within the club for these talented players to work in each day and to adhere to should they wish to move to be trophy contenders in the near future
Pearson has been "All wind and p155" with his promises each season whilst he has been in charge but i believe that he has finally realised that his clubs problems are not always down to squad ability and each individual players playing capabilities alone

It's a very big year for Radford IMO as he surely needs to deliver the goods after some very good squad investment during his tenure at the club with now't to show for it

Hull FC will finish between 5th to 9th IMO in 2016 and i can foresee a change of head coach for 2017

Hull will not do anything but underperform until they get a decent coach.

This is certainly his make or break year, he improved last year and I hope he can improve further as a coach this year, I suppose I bit like Mcdermott did.

We have a decent set of fixtures until Easter, so if we aren't around the top 4, by then, I'd expect him to be sacked.

I would agree with this. IMO both Catalans and Hull have decent squads more than capable of making the top 4 but won't do so with their current coaching regime.

Bear in mind McDermott cut his coaching teeth down in London before he took the reins at Leeds where he certainly oversaw some dodgy regular season performances before (arguably) being hauled out of the mire by a very good side. He's undoubtedly a good coach now but it still took more time than Radford's had thus far.

Bit ironic that it was a post from a Saints fan that set off this thread twist when the jury's still out re whether KC will hack it as a coach.

Think quite a lot of coaches are under pressure. Both at Hull and Catalans obviously been mentioned. Tony Smith I think needs to bounce back after last year at Wire. Grumbles at Saints about Cunningham's style on the team. Wane has come up short 3 out of his 4 seasons and potless the last two. Even Anderson at the Giants, looked to be taking them closer by winning the LLS and being more competitive vs the big buys in knockout games but took a big backwards step last year and saved their worst for their CC and playoff exits. At HKR, with them making the cup final last year and bringing Peacock on board then if Chester doesn't get them into the Top 8 he could be on shakey ground and has Betts taken Widnes as far as he can?

Hull remind me of Tottenham in a way. A decent team on paper just need a style of play to fit them all. Spurs are getting it now they've got the right coach, Hull haven't yet.

hulls problem is depth. Its why almost all 'challenger' clubs fall away.

Leeds lose Hardaker for a game and they can replace him with Ashton Golding, Briscoe is out for a few months and they can put in handley, leeds have the likes of Keinhorst, Walters, Achurch, Mullally who probably wont get in the first choice 17, potential stars like Lilley, Cam Smith, Jordan Baldwinson looking for game time.

Saints and Wigan are the same, Wigan not only have a George Williams to step up, but a Ryan Hampshire going to Cas on loan too.

They all have a fantastic first 17, another 5 or 6 of the best players in SL, and another 5 or 6 of the best prospects and proven SL quality players. Other clubs just dont have that, they have a first 17 who can compete, but they lose 2 or 3 important players, 2 or 3 first teamers and it all falls apart.