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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"And if you finish 3rd in the FA championship you get and advantage over the teams which finished 4th, 5th, and 6th. The same in the SL playoffs. In this system your performance in the first 22rounds is entirely disregarded
Put another way, you are bottom, 10 points off 8th with 10 games to go, only 12 games into the season. You aren't realistically going to overtake 4 teams in 10 games, so are you going to go hell for leather for 80 min, for 10 games trying to qualify for a top 8 competition you aren't going to win risk fatigue and injury, or give up, keep your powder dry, rest players, put out a 2nd string and simply focus on not losing a million pounds in funding in those last 7 games?'"
not ideal preperation that is it
yeah then play cold against teams in the championship who are playing with momentum,
wouldn't fancy their chances too much |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"That assumes people will pay for those extra games, all available evidence from the challenge cup and playoffs say they won't. And the difference isn't small it's pretty big. It assumes people will pay for an SL season ticket plus the additional games when it may very well simply encourage people to pick and choose the games they do attend'"
No, that's assuming only half turn up. |
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| Quote ="Bovrick"Are you for real? If they think they can get away with reducing the number of games without changing the price that they wouldn't be trying to increase the price when there were more games.
These guys are trying to make money ffs
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Well lets say they do drop the price of a season ticket from 167 to 130/140 so to speak. You will still have to pay another 60/70 extra later on in the year raising the price overall of watching your team. It could potentially and will be dearer to try and watch your team survive and regain SL status fighting the likes of Leigh and Fev than the current system. Its not about being tight either, I go most games home and away but to some it will matter and be a financial problem |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"actually the wider point I made on that was that a club could finish 9th and earn 20points, earn 6 in the 2nd part of the season and be relegated, another club could earn say 10points in the first part of the year, and only 8 in the second and stay up. So we would have a situation where a team earned 26 points in total and a much higher proportion in a much harder league being relegated in favour of a team who scored only 18 points in total with a higher proportion in a lesser league.'"
In which case they should have performed better against the easier teams. As for the question of an injury crisis, it really isn't that different to getting an injury crisis in round 20 when you're 10pts clear of the relegation zone in 1u1d and ending up getting relegated. Sport is based on so much luck that these things happen.
As for the problem of funding, I'm 100% with anyone who fears for clubs getting relegated, going bust etc and wasting a ton of resources. That is the cost of any system with a gulf in funding between leagues, and I'm worried about that aspect of things (which is why I have [delalways[/del preferred a centralised/franchised system).
Quote ="SmokeyTA"It would also incentivise a team with little chance of making the 8 to rest players for the 2nd part as their performance in the first part is irrelevant.'"
Sure, but again what difference does that make compared to now? Once a team has lost hope for making the playoffs, they may as well prepare for the next season too.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Not to mention the change in primary focus moving fro making the 8 to not being bottom 4 in the 2nd part of the league'"
...am I missing something? What's the difference between trying to make the top 8, and trying to avoid the bottom 4 when there are 12 teams competing? |
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This decision is fantastic for RL. We are well known for being grumpy so and so's who love nothing more than to complain.
Well fill ya boots, this is going to keep the grumps going for most of the next 12 months.
All the arguments against that I have seen so far carry with them huge assumptions. (Stated as facts of course).
The biggest issue is the season ticket issue, but it's hardly an issue that will take all the powers of Stephen Hawking to solve.
Quite frankly I'm glad it's done. The only problem is that having to announce it so far in advance, we will have to put up with 12 months of sour grapes from those against the system.
Just like the RLWC we will have predictions of doom and gloom until the day arrives.
When actually I think most people will just get on with the new system and there will be very little in the way of people walking around puzzled by the Rubik's Cube that is RL.
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| Quote ="fevfan76"not ideal preperation that is it
yeah then play cold against teams in the championship who are playing with momentum,
wouldn't fancy their chances too much'"
I would, championship,sides will have spent the entire season playing against inferior opposition. |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"for me, I wouldn't bother with a competition where the sole focus is not being the worst. I watch sport to see people competing to be the best.
If we wanted to watch a sport where the only aim is not being the worst, let's give the players LSD first. At least then it would be funny.'"
thats the difference between super league and NRL and the biggest in my opinion. |
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"No, that's assuming only half turn up.'"
I edited that to try to clear it up. It does also assume that people will pay 150 for 11 games when they weren't paying 167 for 13 games in big enough numbers. |
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| Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"You could threaten them with public execution, it won’t make a blind bit of difference, somebody has to finish in the bottom four.
Yes I’m as giddy as a kipper, especially with such jeopardy of four SL sides & four Championship sides playing a mini league, I couldn’t possibly guess the outcome.'"
Well I never thought I would see the words "kipper" and execution" used in 1 post, not even one as condescending as this.
Clearly you have never played the game before. |
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Quote ="SmokeyTA"I edited that to try to clear it up. It does also assume that people will pay 150 for 11 games when they weren't paying 167 for 13 games in big enough numbers.'"
Who pays £167 you cheap skates.
www.saintssuperstore.com/matchtickets.html
cheapest season tickets at Saints £251 for standing.
You yorkshire folk are a bit tight fisted.
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Quote ="SmokeyTA"I edited that to try to clear it up. It does also assume that people will pay 150 for 11 games when they weren't paying 167 for 13 games in big enough numbers.'"
Who pays £167 you cheap skates.
www.saintssuperstore.com/matchtickets.html
cheapest season tickets at Saints £251 for standing.
You yorkshire folk are a bit tight fisted.
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| Quote ="Bovrick"In which case they should have performed better against the easier teams. As for the question of an injury crisis, it really isn't that different to getting an injury crisis in round 20 when you're 10pts clear of the relegation zone in 1u1d and ending up getting relegated. Sport is based on so much luck that these things happen.
As for the problem of funding, I'm 100% with anyone who fears for clubs getting relegated, going bust etc and wasting a ton of resources. That is the cost of any system with a gulf in funding between leagues, and I'm worried about that aspect of things (which is why I have [delalways[/del preferred a centralised/franchised system).
Sure, but again what difference does that make compared to now? Once a team has lost hope for making the playoffs, they may as well prepare for the next season too.
...am I missing something? What's the difference between trying to make the top 8, and trying to avoid the bottom 4 when there are 12 teams competing?'"
I still think there is something fundamentally wrong with a team being relegated despite winning more games and earning more points.
On the 2nd part, right now clubs aren't incentivised to rest players, teams may as well try and qualify however slim there chances. Now you are incentivised to rest, go easy.
On the last part I mentioned I was talking about the bottom 4 in the 2nd part of the year |
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widnes isn't in Yorkshire, thats what we pay
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widnes isn't in Yorkshire, thats what we pay
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It was a widnes fan who quoted that! Sounds like a bargain compared to my £290! |
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It was a widnes fan who quoted that! Sounds like a bargain compared to my £290! | |
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Widnes fans apparently, don't mix us up here in the metropolitan city of Leeds. God knows if they pay that much I was just using the same figures |
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Widnes fans apparently, don't mix us up here in the metropolitan city of Leeds. God knows if they pay that much I was just using the same figures | |
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| Quote ="Viva La Vikings!!"widnes isn't in Yorkshire, thats what we pay'"
Now there you go running a perfectly good regional insult with facts....
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Todays big decision - chicken or lamb for tea, the RFL would probably that decision up
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| Quote ="Viva La Vikings!!"Todays big decision - chicken or lamb for tea, the RFL would probably love that decision up'"
You can get some good rat and dog round my neck of the woods, so I've been told.
I fail to see that this is the RFL making a mess. That is making a mighty assumption!
It is also negating the responsibility of the clubs who have voted for this! |
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| Quote ="Viva La Vikings!!"Todays big decision - chicken or lamb for tea, the RFL would probably love that decision up'"
Except the clubs have made the decision. It's their tea and they're the ones cooking it. |
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| Quote ="Him"Except the clubs have made the decision. It's their tea and they're the ones cooking it.'"
I've opted for Chicken by the way |
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| Quote ="Him"Except the clubs have made the decision. It's their tea and they're the ones cooking it.'"
Wasn't it 7 against 6? Not the biggest majority vote considering its quite a big change to the current system |
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| Quote ="Viva La Vikings!!"I've opted for Chicken by the way'"
Tut tut on a Friday, it should be fish and chips. It's traditional for this country. Next you'll be voting for an 8x8x8 system. |
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| Quote ="Viva La Vikings!!"Wasn't it 7 against 6? Not the biggest majority vote considering its quite a big change to the current system'"
and when you consider 2 of the 7 would have been a Hetherington block vote! |
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Quote ="SmokeyTA"I still think there is something fundamentally wrong with a team being relegated despite winning more games and earning more points.
On the 2nd part, right now clubs aren't incentivised to rest players, teams may as well try and qualify however slim there chances. Now you are incentivised to rest, go easy.
On the last part I mentioned I was talking about the bottom 4 in the 2nd part of the year'"
1) Equally some people think that Wigan being crowned SL champions 2013 is fundamentally wrong as they didn't get the most points. Which is fair enough, but it's been decided that playing against the top teams in pressure situations is ranked more important, so playoffs decide it (and generate more money from games). Equally, it could be argued that, in the same way that performing against the best is more worthy than performing against all; performing badly against the worst is worse than performing badly against all. It's the same logic as a playoff system, but as you say a different focus.
2) I guess that's their prerogative to aim to stay up that way. Another option, if we are comparing like-for-like, is to go all out to get 8th and know you're safe for next year, rather than risking a lower league. I'll admit that I would be disappointed if they went your way, and I expect it will be tried, but at least this way there are must-win games towards the end again, rather than just fizzling out.
3) My apologies. Yes I agree that's a sad focus. But hey, people went to the colosseum to watch death, not winners. Who am I to judge.
I think the most important thing to take from this is that we need these guys to read this board. Warning, vulgar language.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm-6RR4sLXw |
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Quote ="SmokeyTA"I still think there is something fundamentally wrong with a team being relegated despite winning more games and earning more points.
On the 2nd part, right now clubs aren't incentivised to rest players, teams may as well try and qualify however slim there chances. Now you are incentivised to rest, go easy.
On the last part I mentioned I was talking about the bottom 4 in the 2nd part of the year'"
1) Equally some people think that Wigan being crowned SL champions 2013 is fundamentally wrong as they didn't get the most points. Which is fair enough, but it's been decided that playing against the top teams in pressure situations is ranked more important, so playoffs decide it (and generate more money from games). Equally, it could be argued that, in the same way that performing against the best is more worthy than performing against all; performing badly against the worst is worse than performing badly against all. It's the same logic as a playoff system, but as you say a different focus.
2) I guess that's their prerogative to aim to stay up that way. Another option, if we are comparing like-for-like, is to go all out to get 8th and know you're safe for next year, rather than risking a lower league. I'll admit that I would be disappointed if they went your way, and I expect it will be tried, but at least this way there are must-win games towards the end again, rather than just fizzling out.
3) My apologies. Yes I agree that's a sad focus. But hey, people went to the colosseum to watch death, not winners. Who am I to judge.
I think the most important thing to take from this is that we need these guys to read this board. Warning, vulgar language.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm-6RR4sLXw | |
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| Quote ="Viva La Vikings!!"Wasn't it 7 against 6? Not the biggest majority vote considering its quite a big change to the current system'"
It's not really that big a change.
It's basically a 12 by 12 system. The odds of 4 teams all being relegated are close to zero. Despite people's Cynicism on here I think given a few years people will wonder what all the fuss was about. |
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| Quote ="bewareshadows"You can get some good rat and dog round my neck of the woods, so I've been told.
I fail to see that this is the RFL making a mess. That is making a mighty assumption!
It is also negating the responsibility of the clubs who have voted for this!'"
and all the scenarios that this will work aren't assumptions i take it? |
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