Shaul/Lomax
McGillvery/
Cudjoe/Watkins
Atkins/Percival
Manfredi/Johnstone
Ratchford/Williams
Gale/Sneyd
Hill
Houghton
Taylor
Currie
Bateman
O'Loughlin

Clarke
Westerman
Walmsley/Green
Watts/

I've heard there's this league in Australia where a few English lads play. Called the NRL or something? Some of them are supposedly pretty good too.

I was responding to an earlier post suggesting we couldn't put out a SL team that could compete with Aus/NZ

Congratulations on demonstrating that we cannot.

Agreed.

Also agree. Though I'm not sure the current crop including the NRL contingent stands a real chance of winning either. The gap between SL and NRL is widening. I don't think there has been as poor a production line of English half-backs and stand-offs as there is currently.

People keep saying this, as if it is a self-evident fact, but as pointed out upthread, we have beaten the the Kiwis the last couple of times and were a hair's breadth from beating the Aussies Down Under last time. Fact is, the Aussies aren't exactly packed with superstars either, compared to periods in the past. Really only JT of the current crop is going to be remembered in another generation's time.

We demolished the kiwis in the All golds tour of 2007, beat them 44-0 in Hull. We beat Australia the year before.

As for only JT being remembered in another generation, nonsense. Cam Smith is up there with any 9 ever, Inglis may not be in the form of his life, but he is a special, special player and compared to any back in my lifetime.

Australia have much more depth of top talent.

However I don't think there are as many really amazing players as there were in the days of Lewis, Meninga, Sterling, Kenny, Pearce etc.

Thurston, Inglis, Smith and that's about it for players at that really stella level. As has been said Inglis has been ordinary this year.

I'd add Paul Gallen and Billy Slater to the list of those that have stood out for the Aussies from the current "generation", although neither may play in the upcoming series. Also Cronk has been a perfect foil for JT, that combination transitioning well from the pretty unbeatable JT/Lockyer combo.

The main thing will be which Aussies and Kiwis will be fit/bothered/able/motivated/allowed* to play come the 4 Nations

*delete as applicable.

Agreed. The Aussie team has been built around the Queensland spine of Slater, Inglis, JT, Cronk and Smith for the best part of a decade and those are the names that will be remembered from this era,but all of them are coming to the end of their careers now and past their very best. Will still be more than a handful mind im sure but the next set of greats are yet to present themselves.Knowing the Aussies conveyor belt though, they will on this tour

Inglis, Slater, Smith and Thurston have been superstars, Austrailias main strength though has been that they haven't had any weaknesses in their teams. A number of the players people are naming for England would be a weakness.

We've said this for years, that the Aussies are only strong in a few positions and those players are knocking on. Ive been hearing for 20 years they wouldnt replace Fittler, they wont replace Johns, they cant replace Buderus, or Lockyer. Yet here we are with Thurston, Smith, Cronk, Inglis and saying the same thing.


The sad fact is that in quite a few positions, the aussies can name two or three players better than anything we have.

Tomkins
Manfredi
Watkins
Cudjoe (Cant think of another decent centre)
Mcgilvary
Brown
Gale
Burgess
Clarke
Hill
Bateman
Currie
O Loughlin

I think people need to have in mind that we have a top class Australian coach in charge now, and he'll have a different mindset to judging players than typical British fans. I suspect Bennett will be a lot more concerned with the efficiency with which the players can enact his game plan than with the often flashy superficial stuff that British fans often overvalue. We should probably think about which players can handle an NRL style game plan.

Obviously who is actually fit will be important, but Whitehead and Hodgson will be in because they are playing well in the NRL. S Burgess and Graham will be in as proven performers, the Burgess twins and Cooper will probably also get in. I expect Widdop to be there, although it wouldn't shock me if he did play fullback given lack of true quality elsewhere (Shaul and Lomax have probably been better this season than Tomkins or Hardaker who have been average and mediocre respectively).

I would expect Chris Hill and Ben Currie to make the squad, the former probably the starting 13. I think Hall and McGillivray fit the bill nicely as the sort of powerful kick returning wingers they like in the NRL. For the hookers behind Hodgson then I think it's not a foregone conclusion that Roby or Clark will get in ahead of Houghton, I'm sure Bennett will be well aware of the benefits of a rock steady dummy half who can give you 50 tackles a game.

And what we finally need to consider is how many Australian players he may poach based on eligibility. I'm sure some people will scream about it, but only idiots would contest that the likes of Trent Hodkinson (likely) or the Morris twins (highly unlikely) wouldn't strengthen the team in areas short of true class.

Yup, pretty much agree with that, except for Hodkinson. I think he's bang ordinary and certainly no improvement on Sneyd or Gale. Widdop at f-b is certainly an option.

Not sure i would feel comfortable at all with the Morris twins representing us as they have played for Australia several times. And i also don't think Hodkinson would improve us a great deal at all.

I agreed with everything else you put BTW, spot on.

I don't see the point in chasing Hodkinson when we've got Widdop, basically offer the same thing, kicking game, defence, some organisation. Not much else. Both playing for two of the worst teams, ball in hand, in the NRL this year.

Widdop to Fullback is interesting, I think he could offer the closest skill set to Darius Boyd, whose whole career has basically followed Bennett.

I'm not keen on playing Widdop at Fullback, if he isn't good enough to play at 6 I would leave him out altogether.

I don't think we should dismiss players that aren't born here but I would like them to want to play for England, rather than being "recruited" or seeing England as second best because their dreams of playing for Oz or NZ have gone or aren't realistic. If players have a real desire to play for England and the shirt, I have no issue whether people consider them "English" by birth or not.

Not keen on trying to shoehorn the Morris brothers in, sends a completely wrong message and I doubt they have ever held ambitions of playing for England. I don't think Hodkinson is very good, had one half decent season with the Dogs and was bang average before that and has been ever since.

not bashing tomkins for the sake of it, but has he shown that he should play for England this year? even some wigan fans want him to concentrate on a full pre season instead

I always forget about Lomax, as he has been so unfortunate with injuries, best FB in SL for me, if he stays fit id have him at FB for England

Lomax the best fullback in the league? Strongly disagree there mate. He's good but no where near the best.

Who is better and English, I really like Shaul, but Lomax has the edge with his passing game as he shown last night. Good runner and very safe also.

Shaul is too small for England. He will get man handled by the Aussies and Kiwis.

Lomax is the best fb in the league imo, wouldn't swap him for anyone.

Tomkins will get picked though, despite any number of horror shows this season.