On the basis of what?

What would any of those have changed that was so obviously broken in order to get England across the winning line?

Powell couldn't do it with a Cas side that were underdogs and fell apart in the playoffs/Cup Final, so why could he do it with England?

Wane is a bit like Tony Smith was when he took over Leeds.

He's walked into a ready made good team, full of young players with a point to prove and a sprinkling of old heads to take them around the park.

You don't exactly need to be Jack Gibson to make either the current Wigan side or Smith's Leeds side a success. The players will pretty much do that for you.

What players that Wane inherited from Michael Maguire are still there?

Last team to play for Wane
Bowen
=#FF0000Charnley
Gelling
Sarginson
Burgess
Green
Smith
Crosby
S.Powell
Flower
=#FF0000J.Tomkins (Only just returned)
=#FF0000L.Farrell
O'Loughlin

Williams
Clubb
Pettybourne
Bateman


Last team to play for Madge
S.Tomkins (Moved on)
=#FF0000Charnleyl
=#FF0000J.Tomkins (left after this season)
Carmont (Retired)
Richards (Moved on)
Finch (Retired)
Leuluai (Moved on)
Lima (Moved on)
McIlorum
Coley (Retired)
Hoffman (Moved on)
Hansen (Moved on)
=#FF0000O'Loughlin

O'Carrolll (Moved on)
=#FF0000Farrell
Tuson (Moved on)
Prescott (Retired)

I'll let you have McIllorum because he would have played if he wasn't injured.

I can see the attraction of appointing Wane since Wiganers can see how they kicked on when Maguire took over from Noble but just because it worked for them doesn’t mean it should work for England. You’re dealing with a setup that has as little as a 3 games a year. You’ve not got as long to work with players or embed a lot of structure. Wigan play a very structured game so it would be difficult to bring this in.

McNamara has an advantage in that he’s above club politics and can’t be accused of bias or being a divisive influence like was the case when Smith was in charge. Wane or anyone else would get accused of that if they kept the club job.

Wane has taken over from Maguire in a system which has hardly changed. Putting a new gut in charge of England would mean a new system and ethos which would take time to get used to with no guarantee of success. It’s a gamble.

If we’d played like we did in 2008 it would be worth it but I think giving McNamara the chance to win the 2015 series is worth it. If England win that series he should be kept on. If he doesn’t then open the job up to Wane, Powell and McDermott. Invite them to apply.

Because McNamara was a resounding success at club level before being given the job.

Powell achieved more with Cas than what most coaches in the world could.

I think McNamara will get a new contract, but I personally think he's taken us as far as he can and it's time to move on.

as the world and his wife have said England try and attack like wigan and they have a wigan assistant already on the staff, appointing Wane would not affect the structures.

again the personnel and playing style are very different under wane, maguire was a lot more reluctant to move the ball early and in our own half.

like it or not Wane is a fantastic coach who has a recent history of winning.

Shaun Wane wants to win so he'll pick the best players, anyone who's seen the way Taylor has been pushed out at wigan will know he doesn't mind upsetting people.

I fear he'll miss out like brian clough did with the FA

Personally, I think it's time for McNamara to go, although there isn't likely to be a huge queue of people banging his door down.

There is clearly an issue with discipline in the England camp and it is something that McNamara hasn't dealt with particularly well. His press conference following the Gareth Hock incident last year was cringe worthy, that was followed by another breach of discipline shortly afterwards and this year, we see Josh Hodgson trashing a student flat. I can't imagine that sort of thing happening under Shaun Wane.

On the playing front, he's done OK with the tools he had, but he's misused a lot of those tools as well. I don't understand the logic in only having one hooker in the match day squad when you plan to spell that hooker with a second rower.

Winning trophies at Leeds in 2004 was not a piece of cake by any means. Leeds won in large part due to Smith's ability to give talented players the confidence to win as well as to finely hone their skills - all the Leeds players from that era will acknowledge the debt they owe Smith in both respects.

Wane I don't know about; I imagine he is living off the structures put in place by Maguire and the tactical nous of Paul Deacon. At Leeds it was Smith who was responsible for both.

so it's all paul deacon now, except we won the double last year when Harris was there so it must have been all him.

you don't have to like Shaun Wane or think he should be England coach but let's stop talking crap and realise he's a very good rugby league coach.

Garry Schofield wants Wane or Powell to get the job.

Not like him to be climbing aboard a bandwagon, unless there's free beer on it.

More time and more resources,perhaps?

TBF all touring parties have discipline problems.

Mal Reilly was/is a much scarier prosepct than Shaun Wane yet players still went off the rails in 1990 and 1992 when Reilly was GB coach. Bobbie Goulding ended up in court and Lee Crooks and Andy Gregory went off on one (according to their own biographies).

I expect there are many more stories that never got out.

It comes with the territory.

All said and done, does anyone feel the slightest bit sorry for McNamara? He was minutes away from taking England to a World Cup final, a finger tip away from a victory over Australia last week and a couple of missed conversions from beating the Kiwis.

Must be hard to take for the bloke.

I keep reading this from a few sources.

We weren't a finger tip away from anything. We were a fair TV ref away from knocking Australia out. That same TV ref is back on duty this weekend.

Point being, McNamara has been desperately unlucky at crucial times of the game.

I agree.

It's just that I'm still sore!

How true! Just shows how narrow the margins are between winning and losing at top level RL. Never Mac's biggest fan but can't help but feel sorry for him - he nearly got England to the World Cup final and now he's nearly got England to the Four Nations!

Most of the elite players in England are coached by Wane. Nearly all the rest used to be.

Total Number of players in England 2014 4 Nations Squad – 24

Total number currently coached or once coached by Shaun Wane - 8

But I'm sure the other 16 wished they were.

The key word being 'elite'.

Your four first paragraphs are 'presently' unarguable with.
But the fifth in which you state that MacNamara has been shown to be capable of taking tough decisions, for example dropping or promoting to the team, are laughable.

In the last W/Cup he proved precisely the opposite and glaring though it was would not be budged on Chase V Widdop until the semi-final.
Even then it was rumoured, that this was brought about by Chase's poor behaviour rather than a decision from the coach. Widdop proved that he had been the stand off we required throughout that comp in that match, every fan knew it should have been done before, Mac apparently did not.

He would still have had Sinfield on this tour, who has had very moderate to poor form for sometime along on this tour and, would have had him again as captain regardless.
No matter how he would have performed, Mac would have kept that unwarranted faith. Possibly with the excuse of retaining the settled side a descriptive he has used so often previously.

Our team certainly did play so very well V NZ, they could even have won but for two coats of paint sending Widdops kicks the wrong side of the posts.
We did create chances, we did NOT take enough of them.
Watch the try that Oz scored V Samoa, five or six players touched the ball within 8 or so yards, before the try was scored, personally I would have been surprised if our lads would have been able to do so showing the same kind of composure that those Aussies HAD to, to make that score.

Sheen showed Mac how to handle players (yet again) and how to use subs, out of position ones at that, wisely and, to his teams best advantage.

This kind of ability is inbred, you either have it or you don't and I contend that in those areas of coaching, that Mac has probably not got the inbred skills to help his players, the team, from his off field position.
I appreciate that he does not knock on, drop passes, etc, but there are avenues that a good coach should possess inherently and up to this stage of his stewardship, I have yet to see them displayed By Steve MacNamara.

Since Sinfield retired from internationals before this tour you’ll never know for sure if McNamara would’ve selected him.




We bombed as many chances as the Kiwis. We’d have grabbed a draw at the end (a fair result) if we hadn’t needed to go for the win.



TBH you don’t know that for sure – I think the England side has improved quite a bit as the tour went on.




Sheens has been lucky this time. Australia were well beaten in game 1 due to him not selecting enough props. They scraped a win in game 2 and came up against a Samoa that had shot their bolt the previous week in game 3. The Aussies improved as the tournament went on but I think you over rate them.

I do prefer the NRL, but, I would have still preferred Hardaker for the same reasons you explain so very well. Tomkins is class, he is not a classy full back, although I would give him credit for his high ball taking today, something I am always usually very critical of from him.

His form in the NRL has been : superb at link play; moderate to poor under kicks and absolutely useless at returning from deep, with the ball in hand.
I believe that Sam would be best up and around where the engine room is, For me his best strengths are, quickness off the mark and an unpredictable nature to perform the unexpected.

Sarginson did what good players are always capable of, when presented with an opportunity which he did so very well. Barring injury he has cemented a rep place for England for some time to come.
Watkins I thought played his best game of the three today and surprisingly did some genuinely good defending too, but yes he has not at all, done what he gets away with at Leeds.
Against top opposition by no means, he does need to raise his game at this level.
I believe he gets it too easy to perform with Leeds and the fact that he has to do a lot more, Versus this class, possibly he needs to amend his game, unless, worse still, he just isn't capable of doing so.

As some one says, we defended better than we have in the recent past. But surely, if the coach is down under working he would naturally see what is required form that League in a defensive capacity?
The reason I prefer the NRL is that there is as much emphasis put onto defending as there is on attacking.
Closer games mostly resulting from that, whereas in the S/L scoring is the be all and end all, with a lot of sides seeming content for the other side to score with the thought that they will then try to score more!
Up against S/Hemi sides that attitude will always fail.